Is a Sandman still a Samdman?????

[tantrum]

so... is it a Sandman if is was built in 2006? I see there were a lot of HBD Sandmans produced, but they do not feature here? is that cause they are to new?

[HK1837]

No, they are VU, VY or VZ utes with canopy. "Sandman" as we know it (otherwise coded as XX7 and later XU3) was a defined vehicle package, consisting of a few vehicle models upon which the option code of XX7 (HQ-mid HJ) or XU3 (mid HJ-HZ) was added. In HQ it consisted basically of:

1. A few component options like XS6 (buckets) and N66 (Rally type wheels).

2. Feature changes, like GTS front fenders, blackouts, deletion of rocker mouldings (380, 480).

3. A decal package for dealer fitment.

By the time HX was released you could significantly modify the Sandman package in two ways only:

Ordering XX7 package instead of XU3 package - gave you passenger tyres.
Choosing DL7 - delete stripes.

Of course you could option any other options available on the parent vehicle eg V8, auto, aircon, power steering, mudflaps etc.

So having digested all that, the whole concept that the Sandman was anything special should be quashed. It is not a model (like Premier wagon, Kingswood utility etc). It was not a premium performance option package on a lesser vehicle (like XU1 on GTR, L34 on XU2 on SL/R or XW8 on HQ Kingswood). It was simply an option package available on a few commercial models that gave you more options for a better price than you would have been able to build yourself plus some feature changes not available as options on that model (eg GTS guards). It is identical in most ways to other packages like Vacationer, Ambulance, Taxi etc. In today's terms we are talking Vspec on top of Calais or SS or other such packaged options on Cruze, Commodore, Holden, Statesman whatever.
Back to Holden putting canopies on a ute and calling them Sandman is no different to putting bolt on flares on a Cruze and calling it a Torana. Or any of us painting up a modified WB and putting Sandman stripes on it, and calling it a Sandman!

Geez, what a long winded way to say no!

[tantrum]

yip, long winded way to say no. hmmmm, so for a vehicle that was a std factory unit, that was then shipped up to the hsv plant, fitted with a genuine HBD canopy, fitted with speacial hsv mags, badged with Sandman graphics and exported to NZ as a genuine Holden Promotional vehicle and launched at a promotional event as a SS Sandman, it's not a sandman!!!

I suppose, at least it's one of three only that were produced in that model, and then no more were made, it's pretty rare.:lol:

[HK1837]

If Holden sold it as a Sandman, then it would be a Sandman, albeit very different to the original Sandman. But to me (you said it in one), it was a promotional vehicle, and not a production vehicle, and as such fits into the same category as the Ewe't, GTR-X, Old man Emu, WA Kingswood just to name a few! Very rare, very desirable and one day probably very valuable. Ben Stewart told me he drove one of the two (can't remember if it was the ute or the ute with canopy) around Lang Lang at some ridiculous speed, but never got a photo of it.
Actually thinking about it, the closest thing today to the original Sandman concept of a sports utility is a VG-VZ S pack ute. Think about it, sports options on a base vehicle (ie Holden utility), choice of 6cyl or V8, manual or auto, mandatory floor shift, bucket seats, alloy wheels, FE2 suspension, sports dash, different paint spec etc. As far as I can recall the first of the SV8 was VG ute and the last was VZ cab chassis?

[Absinth]

if a sandman has had its chassis replaced and it no longer has a corresponding chassis number to the chassis number stamped on the main tag then it can not be called a sandman by the fact that the numbers no longer match..
so if its an hz sandman and it has a wb chassis under it with wb number then it is a wb and no wb vans or utes were sandmans ..
same principal if it is an hz sandman and its got an hq chassis under it..
at one stage in its life it was a hz sandman by the tags that are displayed but as far as any registration authority is concerned its an hq now..so it cant be a sandman..

So...

A HZ Sandman pranged in 1984 has it's chassis replaced with a new replacement chassis from GMH (WB style only available) and the original chassis number is stamped onto the WB style chassis. The Sandman retains it's original chassis number so is still a genuine Sandman.

A HJ Sandman is pranged in 1995 and a replacement chassis is needed. The replacement chassis is no longer available new from GMH so a suitable one is sourced from a reputable wreckers from a HQ. Qld transport orders the original HQ chassis No. to be obliterated and the original vehicle chassis No. stamped above the obliterated one. The Sandman still retains its original chassis No. so is still a genuine Sandman.

[wbute]

yip, long winded way to say no. hmmmm, so for a vehicle that was a std factory unit, that was then shipped up to the hsv plant, fitted with a genuine HBD canopy, fitted with speacial hsv mags, badged with Sandman graphics and exported to NZ as a genuine Holden Promotional vehicle and launched at a promotional event as a SS Sandman, it's not a sandman!!!

I suppose, at least it's one of three only that were produced in that model, and then no more were made, it's pretty rare.:lol:

That does not mean if Holden were to re-release a Sandman that it would not be accepted here. I would think they would be purchased by quite a few members on here!
They should do it!

--- Updated ---

[/COLOR]i say yes Absinth if there is documented proof.

I also say that this sight is not a numbers dominated site so lets get back to the ordinary conversation and leave the numbers to other sites? Everybody just enjoy the cool stickers and even those who dont like the cool stickers enjoy them anyway!

[Absinth]

--- Updated ---

[/COLOR]i say yes Absinth if there is documented proof.

I also say that this sight is not a numbers dominated site so lets get back to the ordinary conversation and leave the numbers to other sites? Everybody just enjoy the cool stickers and even those who dont like the cool stickers enjoy them anyway!

James, this is a Sandman site and as such all things Sandman will be discussed. Some are sticklers for numbers matching cars and some are not. Both are legitimate conversations.

I completely understand where OZ is coming from with regards to the chassis number being the cars identity and I also know that Qld. Transport will order a chassis number to be obliterated and restamped in the case of a legal chassis replacement. I don't know if other States will do the same but assume they would. Otherwise there are two conflicting chassis numbers on a vehicle when a replacement chassis is sourced from a wreckers, one on the chassis itself and one on the data plate.

This is a totally different case compared to say fitting a HZ wagon onto a Landcruiser chassis which is classed as a body swap... not a chassis replacement. In this case the vehicle would be re-registered as a Landcruiser and not a HZ Holden so the chassis number remains as the Landcruiser one.

It also effectively stops people fitting a HQ chassis to a WB and being able to register it with a 350 engine without running it on LP gas only.

[HK1837]

NSW is different, HQ chassis means it is a HQ. Replacement (blank) chassis would get a Police number. Putting on original chassis number is considered rebirthing and fraud under NSW law.

Agree with the Sean with a HZ body on a Landcruiser chassis. But not if it's a HK-HG body on a landcruiser chassis as the HK-HG chassis number is still in place as is the whole chassis. Same with a VU ute on a GU Patrol chassis.

[ozbox]

So...

A HZ Sandman pranged in 1984 has it's chassis replaced with a new replacement chassis from GMH (WB style only available) and the original chassis number is stamped onto the WB style chassis. The Sandman retains it's original chassis number so is still a genuine Sandman.

A HJ Sandman is pranged in 1995 and a replacement chassis is needed. The replacement chassis is no longer available new from GMH so a suitable one is sourced from a reputable wreckers from a HQ. Qld transport orders the original HQ chassis No. to be obliterated and the original vehicle chassis No. stamped above the obliterated one. The Sandman still retains its original chassis No. so is still a genuine Sandman.

with the correct documents from the authorities and a paper trail i would say yes its a sandman because it has its identity and its legal....this however would still devalue the van/ute compared to an untouched example..
if it has no paperwork then its just a copy...

--- Updated ---

ya gotta be quick around here...

what byron said about hq chassis etc was gunna be my next answer..

[razsandman]

NSW is different, HQ chassis means it is a HQ. Replacement (blank) chassis would get a Police number. Putting on original chassis number is considered rebirthing and fraud under NSW law.

Agree with the Sean with a HZ body on a Landcruiser chassis. But not if it's a HK-HG body on a landcruiser chassis as the HK-HG chassis number is still in place as is the whole chassis. Same with a VU ute on a GU Patrol chassis.

Sa differant again, if one car is made from two or body/chassis changed, both id's recorded (writen off) and scraped and motor reg issue a new id and a new complience plate. but there seams to be a grey area you see many cars registerd to the cars id but has had a replacement chassis fitted witch im told is only a problem if the other id is recorded as stolen. i guess we get away with it here cos of no anual inspections ect but hey we are also the only state left that can cut and shut two cars together (i think)