Is a Sandman still a Samdman?????

[HK1837]

I pretty much agree with most of what Absinth says above, mainly bar the 2nd last paragraph. I've always been an advocate (even back in the mid 80's), that if you were going to build a modified car, start with something with intrinsic value. So as an example, if you wanted to build a hot Torana, start with an SLR5000 and go for broke from there. In the early 90's an rolling SLR5000 with very little rust was worth $1000, a whole car in good nick $3000. Stuff around with it and it would always still have intrinsic value. If you took the slightly cheaper way out and bought a Sunbird or 4cyl Torana you ended up with the same thing, but it had no inherent value other than the parts you put into it.
Come forward to today and you want a nice, good looking van or ute. To me the smart thing to do is find a Sandman. Spend $15,000 well on a Sandman and you'll pretty much not lose your investment. Do the same on a WB van or an original 6cyl 3spd HX and you throw $10,000 away. So to use Absinth's example of an L31 M21 HQ Sandman that has had a WB Statesman front fitted, HZ GTS dash and Statesman interior fitted, 9" diff fitted and painted Hothouse green, if done right to me that is still at least a $12-$15,000 ute (or van) (maybe a HQ isn't such a good example though as it'd have had structural mods to the dash and cowl, so lets say the same thing but in a HJ!). Do the same to a base model HJ-HX and to me the van is worth the parts that create it.
I'm actually using the same philosphy with one of my HK's. The Warwick yellow GTS327 I have will one day cop a 427, Muncie, 12 bolt, Harrop brakes and 18x8" CV8 rims. Probably have a cage and harness as well. I have a near perfect HK 6cyl GTS shell (Silver mink with red trim) that would be a lot easier, but to me the base value isn't there. The GTS327 has a tag and chassis number inherent value of say $15k, the GTS probably $1,000.
Lastly, on body swaps, I have no problem with it but not for all examples. Some have firewall numbers and other features you cannot replicate without effectively breaching rebirthing laws. Some bodies you can replace with an identical example with no identifying numbers, but the body must be from the same assembly plant, series and month or it isn't worth doing in my opinion.

[TwoTees]

Is a Sandman still a Sandman if it's tags are gone???

Yes. But not worth the premium that a Sandman pulls. Its value is now the same as a Belmont with the same specs.

Is a Sandman still a Sandman if the chassis doesn't match???

I think Holden got it wrong by splitting the body and chassis and not putting all relevant numbers on 1 component that can be used to ID a vehicle.
eg. HK, T, G have the tags and body number on the body so to smash it and replace the front sub section. No worries.
Smash a HQ - WB you loose the body/chassis number.
Having said that, I still think it is a sandman with a chassis change but not worth as much.

Is a Sandman still a Sandman if it has had a body swap???

No. The tags were put on the body shell. That body shell is the vehicles soul.

[Blocker]

Healthy and friendly discussion

[stickthis]

Is a Sandman still a Sandman if it has had a body swap???

No. The tags were put on the body shell. That body shell is the vehicles soul.

Hmmm that is well said. I think original body = worth more $$. But than again if done right who would know?

[jennie285]

Well our tags are in the safe atm, but as soon as we get some rivets they will be back on...over to you Jason :Tongue:

[stickthis]

Should be there any day now Jenny. =)

[ozbox]

if a sandman has had its chassis replaced and it no longer has a corresponding chassis number to the chassis number stamped on the main tag then it can not be called a sandman by the fact that the numbers no longer match..
so if its an hz sandman and it has a wb chassis under it with wb number then it is a wb and no wb vans or utes were sandmans ..
same principal if it is an hz sandman and its got an hq chassis under it..
at one stage in its life it was a hz sandman by the tags that are displayed but as far as any registration authority is concerned its an hq now..so it cant be a sandman..

[stickthis]

hmmm this could heat things up lol.

Ok we have:
1 genuine HZ sandman brissy built XX7.
and 1 stock original HZ 6cyl 2200kg Van. In need of a resto.

The Sandman is stolen and crashed. The tags get stolen and the front chassis smashed. Chassis is unrepairable.

Now you get the Sandman back. You strip it completly down. Put all the original Sandman running gear eng etc into the 6cyl van. You use doors, interior all GTS bits. You even use the windowless side pannels and roof from the sandman and wack them all on the 6cyl HZ van as the ones of the stock van are stuffed from rust. You have now used all the GTS bits. You have painted it the nice same colour the Sandman was and put some stripes on it.

Now is the stock HZ Van a sandman? It has been build by 70% "sandman" parts.

Good for discussion lol

[Absinth]

if a sandman has had its chassis replaced and it no longer has a corresponding chassis number to the chassis number stamped on the main tag then it can not be called a sandman by the fact that the numbers no longer match..
so if its an hz sandman and it has a wb chassis under it with wb number then it is a wb and no wb vans or utes were sandmans ..
same principal if it is an hz sandman and its got an hq chassis under it..
at one stage in its life it was a hz sandman by the tags that are displayed but as far as any registration authority is concerned its an hq now..so it cant be a sandman..

So...

A HZ Sandman pranged in 1984 has it's chassis replaced with a new replacement chassis from GMH (WB style only available) and the original chassis number is stamped onto the WB style chassis. The Sandman retains it's original chassis number so is still a genuine Sandman.

A HJ Sandman is pranged in 1995 and a replacement chassis is needed. The replacement chassis is no longer available new from GMH so a suitable one is sourced from a reputable wreckers from a HQ. Qld transport orders the original HQ chassis No. to be obliterated and the original vehicle chassis No. stamped above the obliterated one. The Sandman still retains its original chassis No. so is still a genuine Sandman.

[b-rock-05]

Since my thoughts on the number stamped on the cowel has been clarified as stamped by the factory, can anyone tell me how this relates to the car, as i cannot find this number duplicated on any of the compliance plates or chassis, and its not a body number as i dont belive the early vans if any had body numbers.