Is a Sandman still a Samdman?????

[HK1837]

hmmm this could heat things up lol.

Ok we have:
1 genuine HZ sandman brissy built XX7.
and 1 stock original HZ 6cyl 2200kg Van. In need of a resto.

The Sandman is stolen and crashed. The tags get stolen and the front chassis smashed. Chassis is unrepairable.

Now you get the Sandman back. You strip it completly down. Put all the original Sandman running gear eng etc into the 6cyl van. You use doors, interior all GTS bits. You even use the windowless side pannels and roof from the sandman and wack them all on the 6cyl HZ van as the ones of the stock van are stuffed from rust. You have now used all the GTS bits. You have painted it the nice same colour the Sandman was and put some stripes on it.

Now is the stock HZ Van a sandman? It has been build by 70% "sandman" parts.

Good for discussion lol

Easy, not possible as there was no such thing as a 6cyl 2200kg HZ van!


Greg is basically right though, but if done right no-one would ever know - which is a little different to using a WB body. So it depends upon lots of things, like is the 6cyl body a Kingswood and a Brisbane build from the same timeframe as the Sandman? If not it'll be spotted as a rebody straight away if you know what you are looking for (this is the stuff (in more detail) I won't publish!).

[hxbunny]

Just to throw another angle, what if the chassis is replaced with another out of same model Sandman, it would still be made up of Sandman components just not all matching from the factory.

[ozbox]

Just to throw another angle, what if the chassis is replaced with another out of same model Sandman, it would still be made up of Sandman components just not all matching from the factory.

unless you grind off or find a blank chassis and restamp the chassis number it still will not match the tag....NOT A SANDMAN...
(**** me how many times will i have to type this before people realise wtf im talkin about and get it in their heads that if the numbers dont match between chassis and tag it cannot ever be a sandman again legally)...
on a purely spiritual level it can be..:Rasta:

ooooo..i know pictures...:knockout:

[ambientgoat]

My understanding was the chassis was always the car. People have been doing body swaps on tonners for as long as I remember.
So if you put a HZ chassis under a previously HQ tonner you now have to worry about emission regulations as the rego people see it as a HZ.

Personally, my view is, it'd be ideal to have the original body and cars that have never had the ID plates removed are generally worth more. But for a car that's famous as beach mobile, I'd rather see rusted out sandman's get a replacement shell than head to the wreckers and eventually be turned into a new fridge.

Looks like I took too long to write this and Byron beat me too it.

[ozbox]

YOU NEED THESE 2 TOO MATCH otherwise it can never be a sandman....

--- Updated ---

too expand on what byron has said regarding identity and chassis...
the sinbox was built from a registered wb utility that had a pre engineering regulations 350 chev installed..and a wb panelvan body..
when i changed the body i did not change the identity of the ute but i changed the body shape..
i legally had the body shape and weight changed with out effecting new registration because i had not changed the identity of the original ute which was the chassis with the 350 chev in it..
the sinbox only runs 2 tags..one from the original ute which matches the chassis and one from the panelvan which shows body shape..i was instructed to do this by the authorised examiner so this blows the theory on ...(its illegal to remove and replace tags)

[tantrum]

so... is it a Sandman if is was built in 2006? I see there were a lot of HBD Sandmans produced, but they do not feature here? is that cause they are to new?

[HK1837]

No, they are VU, VY or VZ utes with canopy. "Sandman" as we know it (otherwise coded as XX7 and later XU3) was a defined vehicle package, consisting of a few vehicle models upon which the option code of XX7 (HQ-mid HJ) or XU3 (mid HJ-HZ) was added. In HQ it consisted basically of:

1. A few component options like XS6 (buckets) and N66 (Rally type wheels).

2. Feature changes, like GTS front fenders, blackouts, deletion of rocker mouldings (380, 480).

3. A decal package for dealer fitment.

By the time HX was released you could significantly modify the Sandman package in two ways only:

Ordering XX7 package instead of XU3 package - gave you passenger tyres.
Choosing DL7 - delete stripes.

Of course you could option any other options available on the parent vehicle eg V8, auto, aircon, power steering, mudflaps etc.

So having digested all that, the whole concept that the Sandman was anything special should be quashed. It is not a model (like Premier wagon, Kingswood utility etc). It was not a premium performance option package on a lesser vehicle (like XU1 on GTR, L34 on XU2 on SL/R or XW8 on HQ Kingswood). It was simply an option package available on a few commercial models that gave you more options for a better price than you would have been able to build yourself plus some feature changes not available as options on that model (eg GTS guards). It is identical in most ways to other packages like Vacationer, Ambulance, Taxi etc. In today's terms we are talking Vspec on top of Calais or SS or other such packaged options on Cruze, Commodore, Holden, Statesman whatever.
Back to Holden putting canopies on a ute and calling them Sandman is no different to putting bolt on flares on a Cruze and calling it a Torana. Or any of us painting up a modified WB and putting Sandman stripes on it, and calling it a Sandman!

Geez, what a long winded way to say no!

[HK1837]

Chassis is the same between models of the same month, only differs between series (say HQ to HX) or same series but built many months apart (eg 11/76 HX vs 8/77 HX). So model wise, a HX Kingswood ute chassis will be identical to a HX panel van chassis as long as it is from the same plant and month.
So if you use a HX ute chassis in a HX van, the vehicle stays as a HX but the identity of the vehicle is always by the chassis, the rest of the tags mean nothing to vehicle identity (from a legal/registration/ownership/insurance perspective). Taking this to the extreme, imagine you have a 1971 HQ Monaro(337) shell. You want to build a nice driving car out of it, so you fit a set of HZ station wagon rails to it (for the RTS). The vehicle gets registered as a HZ coupe, regardless of what the ID plates show. A vehicle registration history search shows that the vehicle was originally an 5044cc HZ Station Wagon. So effectively as far as the law is concerned you have rebodied a station wagon, not re-chassied a coupe. Also the letter of the law requires you to comply with HZ ADR's, which means ADR27A engine, intrusion bar doors, retractable seat belts, amber lenses, black wipers, safety (JJ) rims etc etc.
Clear as mud! This and many reasons is why the whole tag nazi BS is stupid and ridiculous. So concours restore the complete original matching numbers cars, and modify the others. There is no good reason to try to restore a rusted to hell Sandman body if it doesn't have the original rails with it, use a donor body and enjoy!