HQ, HJ, HX, HZ and WB all have different firewalls. Plus they differ within each series in certain ways, and differ between assembly plants.
HQ, HJ, HX, HZ and WB all have different firewalls. Plus they differ within each series in certain ways, and differ between assembly plants.
It is a fluke that Acacia Ridge vehicles have the vehicle option package code on them, as far as I know it was there to help the assembly line blokes. All optional packages that plant built were stamped as such, look at any Acacia Ridge built Vacationer or HQ GTS350 sedan. If Acacia Ridge had built A9X or BO6 these would be stamped too, and the only reason that late LJ XU1 from Acacia wasn't stamped in the same spot was because it had a unique engine, so under the ENG section on the BODY plate they have XU1, and along these lines if Acacia Ridge had built any LH's the L34 wouldn't have been stamped either, it would just have had L34 instead of L31 on the BODY plate. So if Sandmans not built at Acacia Ridge weren't Sandmans, then there is no such thing as an A9X or L34, and there are only about 30 x XW8's (HQ GTS350 sedan). Hope that bit makes some sense!Originally Posted by Gaddy
As far as the AOMC in Victoria is concerned, the engine number is king, but only because that is how all the Victorian historical data is cattledogged. Changing an engine doesn't change the identity of the vehicle, I think most will agree that the LEGAL identity of a vehicle is in it's chassis number, and the HISTORICAL identity is in the tags except of course on those vehicles you cannot pick from the ID plates what it is, like HK GTS or Sandman, in those cases you need log books and body inspection in some cases. I have no argument against tags making the vehicle, it is the sometimes silly/stupid attitude some people take with tags like they are sacred or something. Some of the misguided souls (being kind here) over at gmh-torana think that once a tag comes off the vehicle is only good for wrecking, so we can no longer repair cowl panels on HQ-WB or replace a radiator support on a VB-VH.
twotees your not reading whats being written..legally yes it is a sandman...your opinion will not hold up in court...
--- Updated ---
the tell tale signs would indicate to the knowing that it is a wb body...
no side lights in the quarter panel..
wb booster and master cylinder which meens that it will have metric brake line fittings and unique wb calipers..
different brackets on certain parts of the body ... i wont divulge where..
firewall part thereof which i wont divulge..
cowl washer squirters..BUT..
to change these items to make it into an hx body will only take a couple of days and no one will ever know if its done correctly..:hat:
[QUOTE=TwoTees;12181No. The tags were put on the body shell. That body shell is the vehicles soul.[/QUOTE]
I like this....
Find the soul of the vehicle. Good way to sum up the answer and this will be different for everyone. No need to define soul, leave it up to the individual.
I know if someone stoll my tags I would be devastated but would still consider the van a Sandman as the soul would still be there, both the vans soul and my soul connected to the van.
Wow that's deep.
You belong in a Sandman thinking like that!
If the tags are removed, the vehicle is still a Sandman. In a few models you can even still tell it was a Sandman without the tags. However in the act of someone stealing your tags, what they have done is not stolen the identity of the Sandman (they cannot use it, you still have the chassis rails), but they have stolen 75% of the value of your Sandman. They have turned say a $15,000 vehicle into a $4,000 one. If that makes sense.
To paraphrase - Sandman is a state of mind man.
This will never be answered satisfactorily for everyone, because people are debating from different perspectives.
1. Identity for valuation.
2. Identity for history.
3. Identity for restoration.
The historian will see a Sandman from a different perspective not from value, but from what came off the dealership lot - originality etc.
A general restorer may see it differently too, as they may consider swaps to bodies and replacement chassis differently to the other people.
I say we're all in this together and enjoy it while we can. We're enthusiastic about a little piece of Australian motoring history that either developed from or were influenced by several sub-cultures of their time.
The one thing I think we can all agree on - we do not want to see the Sandman devalued, cast aside or forgotten so we all endeavor to restore, re-create or preserve this piece of history. I'm sure you would all agree that none of us want to see/hear of people intentionally deceiving others with certain claims of authenticity or originality.
I think Byron's database should be considered a National treasure because we all know that this part of motoring data has never been kept, but should be.
haha so we can determine that Queenslanders needed some reminding on what car they were actually building... no wonder, they cant even spell beer.. :-)
Byron, how does the Monaro database work? Do they record things like tags that turn up on ebay without a shell as suspect so if a buyer trys to use them to create an "origional" it will be recognised.
Mauser
blocker i reckon that what you have said is spot on...
my part of the debate comes from the fact that i have been a licensed motor dealer specialising in collectables for 20 years and hate to see people buying these things on the tags and not knowing that without the matching chassis they are just another van..
educating people re the tags and chassis matching is my mission and the only reason i have such a strong opinion in this type of conversation.....
My two bob's worth.
I do not look much these day's,but when I happen to attend a show or whatever, I look for originality. It is just me, but having purchased one new I can't help but look at the vehicles the same way. I know what they came with and where it should be.
Cheers.
"Proud To Be An Old Fart".
Great conversation, I reckon everyone has come up with great and respectful personal angles. I agree with OZ and others that the plates and chassis should match to keep the cars original identity.
I dont think the original engine is important. Sure its the heart that pumps the blood and powers the body but its gunna get worn out and old and i reckon if you can put a new one in; why not? Of course others value the original engine and thats fine too. Different things are important to different people.
I also reckon as these vans get rarer we cant be too precious and turn them into museum pieces. Gotta get them out there in view of the general public and if that means replicas then why not. (long as theyre not passed off as originals) It all raises the profile. Look at Toranas. You hardly even see them anymore and no one cares if they are original SLRs etc. Just seeing one is cool.
In some ways I reckon the visual image of the crazy decals, GTS mags, blackouts and warm seventies colours are the soul of what a sandman is. Its all about the seventies. A more relaxed time, when people spent their spare money on holiday houses and speedboats. Not portfolios and investment properties. Life was lived in the moment and thats what the sandman was all about. Minimal planning, just jump in the van and go.
Everyones got a story about how many mates they had in the back etc.
If that makes sense....? So yeah, plates and chassis for value/originality/collectors but just getting out there in the van and keepin the dream alive by drivin it somewhere is where the soul is...
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