Could this be a sandman - Chassis swap

**hainzy** · 14-09-2011, 12:26 AM

Common sense?? Inconcievable...

And these cars are 30 + years old. Half the bearocrats probably werent even born when these cars were new. Most of them wouldnt even know where to find the chassis number on an old holden these days, and likely wouldnt recognise it if it looked odd anyway... They dont even understand the old holden vin numbers when you try to give it to em. All they would notice would be that the comp plate and chassis dont match. Just 'track down' a 'blank' chassis then...

Originally Posted by Absinth

So, if you were lucky enough to find and purchase a Nos unstamped chassis there would be no number to cross out.... you would be instructed to stamp the original chassis number on in its original position.

You could also get your non matching chassis sand blasted by a sand blasting business and have the stamped number obliterated in the process... show the RTA the receipt from the sand blaster as proof the number was legitimately lost, as long as you have an old registration certificate showing the chassis number matches the compliance plate they will get you to stamp that number back onto the chassis....

Be buggered.... is that some semblance of common sense from the RTA??????

**Absinth** · 14-09-2011, 12:41 AM

Would probably work in Qld in the smaller towns....

In 99 I got a 6cyl HX ute from Noosa wreckers and swapped all the bits from my HJ Sandman over to it.... had to get it engineered to fit bucket seats due to the 3 seat on the HX compliance plate. Anyway, when I presented it for rego the woman told me is was listed as a 6cyl but now had a V8 in it.... I said oh ohh what does that mean.... her reply was no problem, happens all the time with these models .... a few strokes on the keyboard and it was registered as a V8 with the new engine number.

She was more interested in the fact I had the mod plate fitted for the bucket seats and they were fitted correctly.... I figured as I had to get the mod plate I may as well bolt SS Commodore seats into it and had to fit 3" x 3" washers to the floor.

**Vombil** · 14-09-2011, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by adam perth

jeez, they are smart in NSW aren't they...!. I believe in WA it is done off the ADR tag....most transport inpectors are English newbie aussies and wouldn't have a clue....

agreed. i can vouch for the fact they go on ADR tag. they are always keen to check number on the donk tho

**HK1837** · 14-09-2011, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by hqgts

C. Vehicles with Compliance Plate discrepancies

A previously registered vehicle (second hand vehicle) where the chassis/VIN number stamped on the
body does not match the chassis/VIN number on the compliance plate, may be registered at any motor
registry where:
• the vehicle is known to have been manufactured in Australia and known to be of a model that
complies with the Australian Design Rules,
• satisfactory evidence is provided as to the previous registration of the vehicle and
• the vehicle is roadworthy (this may require the presentation of an engineers certificate where
the vehicle had been modified).
Note: Where the chassis/VIN number stamped on the body is the same as shown on the vehicles’ registration documents, but is different to the number shown on the compliance plate, the vehicle will be considered as a vehicle without a compliance plate and the owner will be directed by an Authorised Officer of the RTA to stamp a line on the differing number on the compliance plate.

Alternatively, where the chassis/VIN number on the compliance plate is the same as the number
indicated on the vehicle registration documents, but different to the number stamped on the
body, the owner will be advised by an Authorised Officer of the RTA to provide evidences as to
the origin of the number on the body. Where satisfactory evidence has been provided (i.e. sales
receipts, repair invoices, etc.) and the body is found to comply with all the relevant ADR’s
applicable to the vehicle (this requires the presentation of an engineers certificate), the owner
will be directed to stamp a line on the differing number, and the chassis/VIN number (shown on
the compliance plate and registration documents) stamped as close as possible to the location
specified by the vehicle manufacturer.

***So if you have the books does this mean you can restamp the chassis with the original number under the direction of the RTA?***

If this is the current RTA line, then it has changed.
The 2 x things that bother me are:

1. If you do a replacement chassis on a vehicle where that chassis has a chassis number, the vehicle requires an Engineers report and the original chassis number stamped into the rails next to a crossed out original rail's number. That will look dodgy as hell. Smart people will now grind/sandblast off the chassis's number and get the right numbers stamped on.

2. If you do a body swap with tags and turn up at the RTA with original rego papers for the chassis, the RTA will stamp the number on teh rails onto the ADR plate. This will also look as dodgy as hell, or possibly given the right circumstances may end up with an ADR plate with a changed number. Hmmm, not a fan of this. I can see this being used to get around Stat writeoff's.

**ozbox** · 14-09-2011, 08:02 AM

SO 2T...ive proved with rta documents relating to exactly what i have been on about which is that a vehicle looses its identity if the chassis number does not match the tag..
this is what you wanted is it not?

where is your oh so graceful apology?

**TwoTees** · 14-09-2011, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by ozbox

http://studentweb.usq.edu.au/home/q1...ines/vsi19.pdf

page 6 states...the compliance plate where fitted will be disregarded if...
the identifying number on the compliance plate does not match the chassis number or vin number....

like i said i do facts...btw..took me 10 minutes to find that little bit of gold....

--- Updated ---

....

Yes that goes some way to backing up some of your claims but it does not explain how the vehicle takes the the identity of the new chassis and the sandman identity somehow evaporates. It is a mismatch.
The vehicle now does not comply with the ADR rules on the compliance plate. I have never had a problem with that.

**RodneyHZ253** · 14-09-2011, 08:29 AM

I've read this thread with interest (tounge in check)is this ute a hq because of chassis and a sandman because of Belmont 18v
If I was doing a restoration I would change to HZ chassis because of rts and probably look for one without no's on rail and legally re-stamp with original no's or a police no. At the worst .but if the non matching no's don't worry you register it and drive it
I think
The sale value would be in HZ matching no's sandman
And secondly HZ sandman with police no chassis

**wbute** · 14-09-2011, 08:37 AM

The thing with re-stamping with the original number is what happens when you got to register it and the other other chassis is still registered? Unless you have proof the chassis has been detroyed its a big risk.

But more to the point, if you are going to rebuild a Sandman, start with the right one that has matching numbers and avoid the hassels of a questionable one.

This whole thread is starting to make it possible to question the legitamicy of all the matching numbers Sandmans about and is doing nothing to enhance their value.

if the numbers dont match, rebuild it, but do not try and hide the fact.

**ozbox** · 14-09-2011, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by TwoTees

Yes that goes some way to backing up some of your claims but it does not explain how the vehicle takes the the identity of the new chassis and the sandman identity somehow evaporates. It is a mismatch.
The vehicle now does not comply with the ADR rules on the compliance plate. I have never had a problem with that.

just suck it up sweetheart...:(
it clearly states that its identity is now of the chassis number which does not match the tag hence identity is changed..
the vehicle becomes a whatever it is by the chassis number and therefore looses its complete heritage and becomes a non matching numbers vehicle that is wearing sandman tags and may be its original body..
when you can totally refute my claims with paperwork that is readable by the layman then come back and start another thread..
like i have always said it isnt a numbers correct sandman anymore by way of change of chassis which as the paperwork says makes it loose its original identity legally..
no matter how you may interpret the rta paperwork its just straight black and white to my original argument that once the chassis is changed the vehicle takes on the identity of the new chassis number..

**HK1837** · 14-09-2011, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by wbute

The thing with re-stamping with the original number is what happens when you got to register it and the other other chassis is still registered? Unless you have proof the chassis has been detroyed its a big risk.

Very good point.
I used to have a 4 door HJ Belmont sedan done up as a GTS. It had a set of HX RTS (post 6/77) rails under it, but it was still registered with the HJ chassis number on the rego papers. If i'd kept it going it would still be that way. Say then that I cracked the HX rails and found some blank or other rails for it. I turn up at the RTA with the car and according to the RTA info further back in this thread, the number off the rego papers and the ADR plate gets put onto the replacement rails. 6 months later someone drags out the original HJ rails from that car out of the shed and uses them under another car. What happens when they turn up and try to register it? By the RTA info the number off the rails gets used and stamped into the ADR plate of that car. They can show documentation that they own those rails eg original purchase receipt for the car (I have the car, they still have the rails). When they try to register it it is found there is another car registered with that number. Imagine the sh!tfight that would be.