Could this be a sandman - Chassis swap

[ozbox]

again you have come back with another inane bunch of comments..

with all your research annd that of the sinbox you still havent grasped the reality of it all..

i shall reply to the sinbox first as you have the way it was done totally wrong..

wb ute registered and rusty running a 350 chev legally without engineers papers since 1988.
wb panelvan badly damaged chassis with a good main body..
remove ute body.
replace panelvan body.
identity for registration does not change because chassis not changed nor engine in this case.
effect blue slip which in nsw a blue slip is used for unregistered vehicles and to effect changes to engine numbers and in the case of sinbox it was a body shape variant and weight variant.
i approached the blue slip station owner which in this case i went to an auvis station which is the highest qualified blue slip certified rta approved station.
i then put forward that i wanted to do a body and weight variant on an already registered vehicle.
the owner looked at me like i had 2 heads..i stated my case on the body/chassis being basically the same..he made his relevant calls to the rta technical department in sydney and came back saying its a go.
he asked me to run the 2 main tags one fron the van and one from the ute which shows the chassis number to the original ute and the shape from the van.
because it was an already registered vehicle i did not have to effect a new registration which would have been a registration without compliance plates and also be a total new registration with engineers papers.
now if i have no idea about registration laws in nsw how the hell did i do this?

as for the rest of your waffle i will disect it tomorrow when i can look at it harder and poke holes in it..

[ozbox]

hahahahahahaha[MENTION=114]ambientgoat[/MENTION]

--- Updated ---

Ca BOOM! nice rebuttal 2Tees

[Vombil]

hahahahahahaha[MENTION=114]ambientgoat[/MENTION]

--- Updated ---

nice colour n cut Oz! ahhahahah

can you get me the number of your stylist?

[ozbox]

yep its 0414 385633

[ozbox]

answers to quotes from 2t from his last post..
I will now use your "Sinbox" as an example.
2T STATES ..You started with 2 vehicles. A WB ute and a WB van. You needed to make a decision that one must die so the other shall live.

OZ REPLIES..no ....i never needed to make a decision as to what should die or live...van was only good for its body and ute was only good for its chassis and motor..

2T STATES..Now, If you had have known exactly what the law states you could had done it this way.
Screw the rego papers of the ute up and start with the van. You now use the chassis from the ute to repair the van. You have now repaired the van so the identity of the van continues. Even if you used a HQ chassis the above quoted clause would make your vans identity remain as a WB van on the rego papers with HQ chassis identifier similar to mine.

OZ REPLIES...if i did it that way i would be effecting brand new registration in nsw.obviously i know my rules and regulations for me to effect a body change while still keeping the primary vehicle registered..

2T STATES..To sum that up....
A re-body. the identity of the vehicle stays same as the vehicle started with. A chassis. Making your claim about the identity staying with the chassis Correct!

OZ REPLIES..ah yeh???...weve covered that bit before..

2T STATES...A re-chassis. The identity of the vehicle stays the same as the vehicle started with. Making your claim about the identity staying with the chassis Wrong!

OZ REPLIES..not in nsw or victoria..this has already been established by showing you legal documents from those states...
a re chassis in nsw gives the vehicle a new identity therefore effecting new registration therefore its original identity {the tags} are not valid anymore..

2T STATES..
I understand that is a lot to get your head around in 1 go but you claim you know law so should have no problem with it..

OZ REPLIES..i have no problem getting my head around anything that is logical and proven..i have never claimed i know law but i do know my business and laws relating to the registration of motor vehicles and what forms the identity..
you can come back time and time again with new angles to this debate 2t but you are becoming a bit like an ex wife...
an annoying bitch that will not listen to reason nor read or digest any documents relating to the custody or visiting rights of the chassis and tags..

--- Updated ---

2T STATES..Sorry another long post but if you want to debate law... what can I say.

OZ REPLIES...No..i am beginning to believe that the debate is not about laws as i know and understand them but laws as you need them interpreted to add value to your van which does not have a correct chassis to match the tags.
which of course will never happen.

2T STATES...Spent some time today chatting with a "Technical identity Officer" from ACT RTA

OZ REPLIES..that must have been rivetting..?

2T STATES..He stated that the id info on my papers was correct and will remain that way if re-registered.

OZ REPLIES...it may not be correct as the current laws stand but it will remain that way as long as it stays in current registration..once registration has expired and you or any one else goes to effect new registration it wont be that way anymore.

2T STATES...A side note: I eventually fessed up that I also, am looking for info for a debate regarding the identity of a sandman.

OZ REPLIES..did you also tell him that you are trying to justify your incorrect numbers so that in your eyes the value will be the same as a REAL sandman..

2T STATES..."A sandman is no longer a sandman if the chassis has been changed according to law". His reply was What? What has a chassis got to do with the fact its a Sandman. The way i know a Sandman its all to do with the body"

OZ REPLIES...sandman is an option package so yay you still have a sandman by virtue of tags and body but to make it complete and worth anything it all has too match...as stated at the beginning of the debate...FULL CIRCLE..

[TwoTees]

2T STATES...A side note: I eventually fessed up that I also, am looking for info for a debate regarding the identity of a sandman.

OZ REPLIES..did you also tell him that you are trying to justify your incorrect numbers so that in your eyes the value will be the same as a REAL sandman..

I won't continue with the merry go round of I said you said but I will put you straight to yet again an assumption on your behalf.
If my only concern was monetary value I would have just re-stamped the chassis.
If you go back to my introduction post that you so graciously highlighted where I made it clear my van had an incorrect chassis from the start, you will also read that from a young age I always wanted a Sandman. I now believe I have one. Not a 100% sandman but a Sandman. I want to be able to open my bonnet and let other people look at my van and not have some big mouth know it all say "Thats not a Sandman! I read on the sandman site that an mismatch chassis means this van is a HQ!"
When V6HQUTE posted up the joy he was having in finding a Sandman (Albeit the deal fell through) you did exactly that to him. This gave me the motivation to read and seek knowledge to make my own informed opinion and challenge what you claim to set the record straight.
Now I'm sure you will come back about what I just said with some non relevant dribble to make yourself feel bigger . The fact is we are talking about what you claim. Lets just recap what it is you claim.

A sandman is no longer a sandman if the chassis has been swapped!
The vehicle is now the vehicle that was attached to the chassis including it's model designation!
This is law!

Can you keep you responses relevant to the topic please?

My next response to your claims will take some time as snail mail is involved.

[playwme]

I won't continue with the merry go round of I said you said but I..........

I hate to be the one to point out the obvious..........

Lets just recap what it is you claim.

A sandman is no longer a sandman if the chassis has been swapped!
The vehicle is now the vehicle that was attached to the chassis including it's model designation!
This is law!

Can you keep you responses relevant to the topic please?

Didn't you ask for LEGAL proof? There seems to be a lot of jumping between whether the discussion is about whether it's a Sandman
a- in the eyes of the law (RTA).
b- in the eyes of the owner.
c- in the eyes of a buyer.

Can you please clarify which one you would like to debate?

[ozbox]

I hate to be the one to point out the obvious..........





Didn't you ask for LEGAL proof? There seems to be a lot of jumping between whether the discussion is about whether it's a Sandman
a- in the eyes of the law (RTA).
b- in the eyes of the owner.
c- in the eyes of a buyer.

Can you please clarify which one you would like to debate?

as far as i know i am debating question a-

legal proof has been submitted to 2t.

by myself and mr a goat.

question b is totally up to the owner if he is happy with the fact that he doesnt have a matching chassis to tags sandman...value not up there as its not matching.

question c ..this debate has now opened the eyes of all readers to the value of what they are buying and to be aware that they are buying something which is tainted in the eyes of collectors.

2t i cant wait for your next lot of interpritations to our chassis to tags debate...snail mail ay..interesting..

[ambientgoat]

I want to be able to open my bonnet and let other people look at my van and not have some big mouth know it all say "Thats not a Sandman! I read on the sandman site that an mismatch chassis means this van is a HQ!"

I hate to tell you, but with sandman's being so hard to pick, you're going to get that big mouth know it all telling you that at car shows even if you have a fully matching sandman. It's just the nature of the game. Thinkening of the skin is highly recomended.

And yes out of these options
a- in the eyes of the law (RTA).
b- in the eyes of the owner.
c- in the eyes of a buyer.

It is the legal aspect I've been joining greg on debating. Which is why I can't 'agree to disagree' it being law and all.

Now on the other two matters, that's up to each individual buyer and seller. To debate that would be as productive as me arguing with Byron that a supermint with stripes, HZ 253 4speed is the best sandman ever. While he is of the opinion that DL7 not green and 308 auto is the way forward. I mean, clearly I'm right and green and manual is best, but there is no future in me trying to sell this concept to Byron. So in that instance agreeing to disagree is fine, and we can all walk away from the argument feeling we know what's right.

Plus the other thing to take note of, the community outside of all us sandnuts, don't care. With the HZ I just got, I had a mate looking at it going "cool sandman" and I said "well, it's just a hz van" so he goes "oh, how's it different to a sandman..." (I've rambeled enough over the years he could recognise I'm bolting all the gts options on the car) "well, when it left the factory, these plates here say it was..." I say. My mate at this point glazed over and said something like "so exactly the pg13'n same... sweet van" Then we went for a cruise along the beach.
So TwoTees, if you want to restore yours as per the plates. Most people are going to love it, not know the difference and not pick you up on it and you'll generally you'll be greated by a smile and a thumbs up. However this will won't change the legal status of the car.

[HK1837]

Now on the other two matters, that's up to each individual buyer and seller. To debate that would be as productive as me arguing with Byron that a supermint with stripes, HZ 253 4speed is the best sandman ever. While he is of the opinion that DL7 not green and 308 auto is the way forward. I mean, clearly I'm right and green and manual is best, but there is no future in me trying to sell this concept to Byron. So in that instance agreeing to disagree is fine, and we can all walk away from the argument feeling we know what's right.

Goat is right, value is basically governed by what someone will pay. When it comes to vehicles, that value is governed by many things. As goat has said, I would pay more money for a 173 trimatic not-green HJ Sandman than I would for a green 253 4spd HZ Sandman in the same condition. The long term top dollar car to me is the most highly optioned first car of a run. So that means a HQ Kingswood Sandman ute in 308 trimatic with air and steer, and this would be my choice closely followed by a HJ with the same boxes ticked. However what is good is that others disagree and like other versions better.
How that flows across to cars missing their original chassis to me is the car gets devalued as a result, probably by as much as 50%, however that may not deter someone from paying more. Personally, if I was to look at buying a restored HJ TH400 308 Sandman ute that didn't have its original chassis I would expect it would be worth less than if it had its chassis, but I wouldn't expect to pay half of what the numbers matching car was worth. If the numbers matching car was worth $25k, I'd probably happily pay $18k or so, however others may not.