1985 to 1990 - the lost years

[hx-sandman]

Being an unabashed ute fan who wouldn't crawl over the Roseanne Barr of utes to get to the Miranda Kerr of vans, I wonder how things may have been if the General hadn't axed utes after the WB until he introduced the VG. With the development lead times required I imagine that the decision was made at least a year or two prior to the end of the WB and I haven't seen any material to suggest a replacement was planned up until the last minute.

Would we have seen a;

WH ute in 81/82
WK ute in 1984
WL ute in 1986

Would they have shared the appearance of the commodore models that they may have mirrored?

Would they have been 6 cyl only or would the V8 option have been the black 5.0 followed by 4.9 with no small V8?

Would they have lost all the charm and beauty of the World's Best WB?

Would the WB be as popular today if production had never ceased and it's successor so radically different in appearance?

[mauser]

hmmm have to think about this one.

Lots of utes were brought new as a tool for a tradesman. The resergence in the sports option ute only came back with the VG until then I think the white hilux/courier/rodeo in either 2 or 4wd was prefered. Landcruisers and Patrols became the towing vehicle of choice for a while as well.

Pre-WB in Sandman terms, the reduced GMV of the XX7 Sandman ute would of affected some sales and I am suprised the XU3 option was not more popular among ute buyers. I guess the availablility to option a GTS dash in a Kingswood would of suppressed some sales to be specifically optioned as a Sandman.

The van buyers, on the other hand, were were buying the Sandman vans as a prefered daily driver as has been highlighted by the sales drop of 2-door coupes with their introduction. The reduced GMV would not of worried them in the slightest.

Mauser

[Sandaro]

I actually wonder how many new car buyers of Sandmans were actually clued up to the reduced GMV of sandman's generally? Would the salesman of the day actually have highlighted the point? Maybe that's why the XU3 is relatively scarce? Unless you knew (and also had a need for carrying maximum weight) you just got XX7.

Steve

[HK1837]

Just a few points, there would have been no WH, WK or WL utes. VH, VK and VL were all V sized vehicles. The W sized vehicles (HJ-WB) would have continued into whatever came after WB whether that be WC, WD etc. If the W shape had still been around in 1988 it would most likely have got an injected 5.0L like the V sized Commodore/Calais. 6cyl version of WB successor would have been the hardest option for GMH to build as the 3.0L Nissan and the old Jatco auto would have been of no use in a commercial vehicle (ever driven a 3.0L GQ patrol?). This may well have been why the W series ended in early 1985, as they knew the Nissan engine was coming, and at that stage the Holden V8 was to be dead at the end of VK (remember Street machine's "Save the V8" campaign) and the "big" engine was to be the turbo Nissan engine. The V6 Buick engine came after the Yen went ballistic and made the Nissan engine too expensive.

Mauser, the "New" Sandman introduced mid HJ (ie the XX7) and its non-Sandman XU4 counterpart weren't introduced without good reason. You could still easily get a normal Sandman but its name changed to XU3.

--- Updated ---

I actually wonder how many new car buyers of Sandmans were actually clued up to the reduced GMV of sandman's generally? Would the salesman of the day actually have highlighted the point? Maybe that's why the XU3 is relatively scarce? Unless you knew (and also had a need for carrying maximum weight) you just got XX7.

Steve

As above a "normal" Sandman was available for the whole Sandman run, from 1/74 through to late in 1979. The sedan tyred variant was only available for a limited time ie late 1975 to late 1979. When you eventually read the reason all will become clear.

[Sandaro]

Being an unashed ute fan who wouldn't crawl over the Roseanne Barr of utes to get to the Miranda Kerr of vans, I wonder how things may have been if the General hadn't axed utes after the WB until he introduced the VG. With the development lead times required I imagine that the decision was made at least a year or two prior to the end of the WB and I haven't seen any material to suggest a replacement was planned up until the last minute.

Would we have seen a;

WH ute in 81/82
WK ute in 1984
WL ute in 1986

Would they have shared the appearance of the commodore models that they may have mirrored?

Would they have been 6 cyl only or would the V8 option have been the black 5.0 followed by 4.9 with no small V8?

Would they have lost all the charm and beauty of the World's Best WB?

Would the WB be as popular today if production had never ceased and it's successor so radically different in appearance?

Sorry, got off topic a bit with my last reply. I think the WB was so popular in the "lost years" because there wasn't a replacement. If my memories correct they were certainly more sort after (and more expensive) than the earlier utes for well into the nineties, I assume because they were the last (and therefore newest-generally better conditon) of the old breed.

Steve

[hx-sandman]

Just a few points, there would have been no WH, WK or WL utes. VH, VK and VL were all V sized vehicles. The W sized vehicles (HJ-WB) would have continued into whatever came after WB whether that be WC, WD etc. If the W shape had still been around in 1988 it would most likely have got an injected 5.0L like the V sized Commodore/Calais. 6cyl version of WB successor would have been the hardest option for GMH to build as the 3.0L Nissan and the old Jatco auto would have been of no use in a commercial vehicle (ever driven a 3.0L GQ patrol?). This may well have been why the W series ended in early 1985, as they knew the Nissan engine was coming, and at that stage the Holden V8 was to be dead at the end of VK (remember Street machine's "Save the V8" campaign) and the "big" engine was to be the turbo Nissan engine. The V6 Buick engine came after the Yen went ballistic and made the Nissan engine too expensive.

I wonder whether the styling cues would have come from the appropriate model commodore with no W series sedans, or would it have become an orphan for design and evolution. It's hard to imagine a WD ute that shared the looks of a VH/K commodore. Even harder to imagine it looking good.

The dimensional differences were probably significant enough to prevent sharing a front end - WB width 1877mm/Front Track 1520mm vs VB Commodore width 1722mm/Front Track 1451mm.

[wbute]

They became irrelevant. There was no sedan version being built. The commodore became the main car, and I imagine the platform was too small and weak for a commercial version.
Holden had started selling the Isuzu commercials and what bean counter would ever agree to having a Commodore competing against a Kingswood, and a Isuzu competing against a home grown commercial vehicle.
The other main problem was tradies were becoming more aware that utes and vans were actually useless compared to a one tonner or a bongo van.

However you can take Ford as an example of what could have happened I suppose. Start with the XD in 79 and just keep taking the latest sheet metal onto the front for the rest of time lol. they widened the opal to make a commodore, so it stands to reason they could have widened the commodore from to fit the WB?

I would say they would have dropped the V8 in the follow on from WB. They had already dropped the 5 litre. They clearly though "economical" engines were the way of the future.

WB were popular because they had a more modern front, body mouldings and taillights. They looked more like a commodore than a 70's kings wood. Thats why they were the go in the 80's. Just the same as a VG/VP commodore ute is way un-cool today. They are out of date. But you can get some cred with a VS.

[Alien DNA]

A wb sandman would prob look something like this!!!

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Not-Sandm...item336dcb919f

[HK1837]

I wonder whether the styling cues would have come from the appropriate model commodore with no W series sedans, or would it have become an orphan for design and evolution. It's hard to imagine a WD ute that shared the looks of a VH/K commodore. Even harder to imagine it looking good.

The dimensional differences were probably significant enough to prevent sharing a front end - WB width 1877mm/Front Track 1520mm vs VB Commodore width 1722mm/Front Track 1451mm.

You are forgetting WA and WB already had Commodore style front. Just look at the U, V and W sized cars in 1980: UC, VC and WB. There is no nosecone as such (although WA/WB has the little apron to match to the existing bonnet). The grille and headlights form the front, there is an apron down below. Headlights and blinkers wrap around.

--- Updated ---

They became irrelevant. There was no sedan version being built. The commodore became the main car, and I imagine the platform was too small and weak for a commercial version.
Holden had started selling the Isuzu commercials and what bean counter would ever agree to having a Commodore competing against a Kingswood, and a Isuzu competing against a home grown commercial vehicle.
The other main problem was tradies were becoming more aware that utes and vans were actually useless compared to a one tonner or a bongo van.

I'd agree with the lack of sales killing it. Remember also the body was 13+ years old at the start of 1985. The van turret had been around since HD.
I don't think they were that worried about competing imports with home grown. Isuzu and Chev utes (Luvs and C20/C30/K20) had been sold parallel with Holdens since the early 1970's. Bedfords were as well.

[wbute]

at least they ended with something decent. It would have been sad to go the Ford route and only offer 6 cylinder utes/vans.