Counterfeit Sandmans

[wbute]

I think people are getting "original condition" and "fake" confused.

More to the point, how many Sandmans have already been through mega dollar rebuilds and the owners have assumed they have the original bodies? That ute in the Euchca car museum could just as easily have been rolled in the first week of ownership and had a insurance re-shell with the correct new body.

The point is that not one Sandman could ever be proven to still have its original body. You could no doubt prove it has the correct body, but not the original body.

[Vombil]

kinda off track a little but i thought id share this story

A few years ago I found a cheap VZ SS ute in QU and caught a flight over to drive it back to WA. A mate of mine came with me. He found a VZ s-pac 1 tonner with gen3 6-speed with 4,500 kms on the clock. Before he got there he knew he was buying a repaired 'repairable write off' that had been lovely bought back to life by a father and son that own a panel shop on the sunny coast. The ute was seriously smashed in the front at 600kms... totaled on the first tank of fuel!!! This tonner had THE MOST AMAZING custom painted steel tray ive seen. It looked like sheet glass. 200 hours of hard labor went into the tray alone!

So we got home no problems. The big Austrian hadnt owned a dirty big V8 before (fuel is expensive in Europe) and it wasnt long before he drove it front on into a tree at 60km/hr and the motor nearly ended up in the cab! The insurance paid him out over $20K and he bought a well body VZ SS shortly after.

After that we would always speculate as to what would become of that tonner with bullshit hot tray... until.... 2 year later it turned up on carsales.... in NSW!!! A bloke (Lebanese i think) answered the phone and proceeded to tell me a pack of flat out lies like he did the tray himself and spent $5000 on wheels and suspension etc etc. After I called him out on all his bullshit he ended up telling me he owned a panel shop and then i hung up on him.

So here is an example of a MODERN vehicle that only has 15,000 kms on the clock and has been completely buckled and bent TWICE!

Its a miracle if a sandman gets into 30+ years of life without being rusted out completely or bent; needing a body or even forbid,.. a chassis change

--- Updated ---

[MENTION=225]HK1837[/MENTION] i found a number with letter (eg L45687) stamped into the b pillar on the driver side. it was under the paint and i had door and fender off to see it! do you know what this is?

[HK1837]

I know of one, a friend has had since new. I know it hasn't been smashed, all original paint bar the nosecone (stonechips).

I know it is all grey area, and it gets really emotive. By some people's reactions you'd think some cars were heritage listed! Can you see people in 20 years getting all upset about VG-VSIII S pack utes? These are the 90's equivalent of a Sandman.

[mauser]

I know of one, a friend has had since new. I know it hasn't been smashed, all original paint bar the nosecone (stonechips).

I know it is all grey area, and it gets really emotive. By some people's reactions you'd think some cars were heritage listed! Can you see people in 20 years getting all upset about VG-VSIII S pack utes? These are the 90's equivalent of a Sandman.

haha no-ones getting emotive mate. We all have our own opinions and I can see yours and everyone elses. I remember cutting up 186S Monaros and 253 Toranas thinking who would want those PG13$%^ers. HQ SS's were a poor man's Monaro.

Mauser

[Blocker]

Technical services engineer at NSW rego (TRMS) has just told me that removing the compliance plate from a body is illegal - however they are ok with a rebody if the compliance plate of the new body remains. I explained that the chassis number would not match and he said that is not an issue for rego. You can legally do the body swap (keeping the new compliance plate not the old one) and then get a blue slip.

How long ago did you do your swap Greg? I guess whatever the circumstances you did ok in having the two compliance plates on the car.

However in SA they will not allow it at all. The new body including the compliance plate AND the chassis rail comes over (for HQ-WB) or you get a police stamp on the original chassis.

So, even though this thread has gone off track whatever you do seek advice from your local authority before making decisions like this, and it is apparent that some of these activities are considered illegal in some States of Australia.

[ozbox]

So, even though this thread has gone off track

i dont see how its gone off track..its basically the same as the chassis to tag thread...you asked about counterfiet sandmans didnt you?...exactly the same thing in principal...

[Blocker]

i dont see how its gone off track..its basically the same as the chassis to tag thread...you asked about counterfiet sandmans didnt you?...exactly the same thing in principal...

Without naming names has anyone come across any fake/counterfeit Sandman in the past 12/24 months for sale online?

Do you think there has been an increase in purposely faking a Sandman or do you think people are still not educated enough to know the difference.

The question I asked was; has anyone noticed an increase, not what makes a genuine or can it be done etc.

People in the know like yourself because you are in the business of motor trading and parts, and others on here might have gauged some idea if some knock-offs are becoming more common. I guess it'd be too hard unless we send guy like you and Byron flying around Australia to check every potential Sandman for sale :yawn:


The chassis and body stuff has been done to death and there is plenty of info on the other thread about that.

[playwme]

The question I asked was; has anyone noticed an increase, not what makes a genuine or can it be done etc.

I believe that in order to answer the question on whether there has been an increase it must first be determined what constitutes a genuine or a counterfeit. How do we otherwise determine the numbers?

Personally, I'd prefer that anything with terminal rust be sent to Ozbox for wrecking and the tags melted down. There's way too many "barn finds" getting resurrected and flooding the market (which makes ours less rare and desirable). I wouldn't consider a vehicle that had been reshelled with a secondhand body as genuine, no matter how correct. It's not the same vehicle that left the factory. You've destroyed the identity of that old base model vehicle to fix a high spec model. If I need a heart transplant and George Clooney gets killed in a car crash and they transplant his heart into me, does that then make me George Clooney? Would that be right of me to assume the identity of the higher spec model?

Of course, determining if a reshell has happened is nigh on impossible for most people, especially with a restored car. I guess that's why all mine are old and faded (and cheap). At least I know what I've got. Not that I'm planning on riding the wave of cashing in.

[ozbox]

was done 2 years ago blocker...i did querie the request for the adr tag being done but the examiner rang technical and was told to do that...i would have been happy with no tags as you dont need them for registration in nsw..
the stupid part of the technical services comments is that if you said nothing to anyone and presented with the bodies tags they do not record this in any way..however if you present without tags it is recorded as a vehicle without compliance plates for registration...

[Felicia]

Hi there.

Well said before masuer.

Now, to answer the question. Yes, there is definately an increase. If their young, it's ignorance, if their old.. it's purposefull... they have the experience and the knowledge to do so.

What happened with the court case? Wouldnt those standards be what we should be going by.

At the end of the day. All individuals reap what they sow, if a seller / buyer goes to court that
really is their problem. Some people choose to live honest, some dont. The honest, cannot
change the disshonest. Karma always gets her own back. Change what we can't accept, and accept
what we cant change. People will do what they will do and thats thweir life and their choice.

If the honest people stick together, hopefully we can push the dishonest ones out, and justice will be served.

Sandman Owner.