Counterfeit Sandmans

[V6HQUTE]

Hey HK1837, here are some shots of my compliance plates and the stamp that appears on the cowl, from what I have been told and can work out, the van was built in dandenong, belmont, was a 6 cylinder (not sure which), 3 speed manual colomn shift, white paint with brown interior, does this sound right to you?

My chassis number appears on the one located on the drivers side cowl. Suggesting it is the original chassis and body.
Could you explain the codes for me, and the stamp on the cowl?

Cheers,
Karl.

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the ones i have seen have been on the firewall just near the heater/ac, mabey different plants???

[TwoTees]

A bit late in on this, but what if i write my van off, then find another body that has no tags and use it to replace my damaged one! What would the RTA require if i went down the "honest" road and didnt just use my original tags on the replacement body??

Gaddy,
I do not deem myself an expert but I have read a lot about this lately and although I have never actually come across this exact scenario, here is a few possibilities.
1. If you already have the vehicle registered showing the chassis number and the shell was written off (lets assume with out the intervention of an insurance company) you "possibly" may be able to use it but not attach any tags if you could provide proof of ownership. (there are heaps of monaros out there with no tags) The ADR's would default to the chassis, (This would be determined by the engineer) and a surrogate vin may be issued.
2. If you just decide to build a car from parts and the shell has no identification it would not be suitable for rego.
3. If you build it from parts it could be deemed an ICV. (Individually constructed vehicle) and receive a surrogate vin if you can provide evidence of ownership.

Any of these scenarios would be subject to an individual RTA officers judgement.

A lot of what I read talks about proof of ownership of parts used to repair. The big problem is how can you provide proof of ownership when the serial number has been removed. Whatever the case the original identity of the vehicle would be gone.

Basically, once a body shell is not suitable for repair the vehicle identity is finished. Sad, but true.

I personally don't have a problem with re-shelling a vehicle that is registered and loved and in need of repair due to accident damage.
I just hate seeing people buy a rusted, neglected piece of crap, re-birthing it and passing it off as genuine.

[SNDMN]

By pretenders HJ-HZ Monaro I assume you mean 4 doors? If so you should say 4 door HQ-HZ Monaros (or really 4 door HQ-HX Monaro). HJ GTS coupe is as mch a Monaro as a HQ coupe is! And HJ-HZ GTS sedan is at least plated as a Monaro! HQ's are optioned Kingswoods.

If an optioned HQ Kingswood (80469 + XV4 or XW8) is a 'pretend' Monaro does that make an optioned Belmont/Kingswood ute/van
(80480/80270/8WM70/80 etc + XX7 or XU3) a 'pretend' Sandman???

[playwme]

Hey HK1837, here are some shots of my compliance plates and the stamp that appears on the cowl, from what I have been told and can work out, the van was built in dandenong, belmont, was a 6 cylinder (not sure which), 3 speed manual colomn shift, white paint with brown interior, does this sound right to you?

My chassis number appears on the one located on the drivers side cowl. Suggesting it is the original chassis and body.
Could you explain the codes for me, and the stamp on the cowl?

Cheers,
Karl.

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That's kind of cool in it's own special way. All the blank spots near engine/trans/diff means that no options were specified. That means you have a Glacier White Pov Pack as you can get. Probably a fleet car (NRMA maybe) or something along those lines.

Stamp on the cowl I think is a body number that doesn't actually correspond to anything on the tags. My HQ coupe has one on the firewall down near the heater box.

[HK1837]

If an optioned HQ Kingswood (80469 + XV4 or XW8) is a 'pretend' Monaro does that make an optioned Belmont/Kingswood ute/van
(80480/80270/8WM70/80 etc + XX7 or XU3) a 'pretend' Sandman???

It isn't a pretend GTS at all. If it was, then XU-1, L34 and A9X would mean nothing either. Remember XV4 and XW8 are not oddballs. They are the norm. The ONLY premium performance "muscle" GMH cars (HK-HQ and then Torana era) that weren't options on lesser vehicles were the HK-HQ 1837 coupes. The rest were option packs on lower spec vehicles, and this should include Sandmans if you include XV4 HQ in the group.

--- Updated ---

Hey HK1837, here are some shots of my compliance plates and the stamp that appears on the cowl, from what I have been told and can work out, the van was built in dandenong, belmont, was a 6 cylinder (not sure which), 3 speed manual colomn shift, white paint with brown interior, does this sound right to you?

My chassis number appears on the one located on the drivers side cowl. Suggesting it is the original chassis and body.
Could you explain the codes for me, and the stamp on the cowl?

Cheers,
Karl.

Attachment 3566Attachment 3567Attachment 3568Attachment 3569Attachment 3570

I can't really help you on the cowl number on this one as it is a Dandenong assembly. However i'll give you a clue: go and find an Elizabeth assembled 6cyl HQ van with a similar BODY number (off the body plate) and look at its chassis number. See if you see any similarity.

[SNDMN]

It isn't a pretend GTS at all. If it was, then XU-1, L34 and A9X would mean nothing either. Remember XV4 and XW8 are not oddballs. They are the norm. The ONLY premium performance "muscle" GMH cars (HK-HQ and then Torana era) that weren't options on lesser vehicles were the HK-HQ 1837 coupes. The rest were option packs on lower spec vehicles, and this should include Sandmans if you include XV4 HQ in the group.[COLOR="Silver"]

I agree Byron 1837s are the premium and I don't beleive the GTS/4s are pretenders either. I was just using the similar scenario between XV4/XW8 & XX7/XU3 to make a point for those who consider a Monaro (HQ-HZ) to be a coupe and the sedan version are pretenders.

Although HQ GTS/4s share the same model number as Kingswood V8, an 8Q69 VIN is as much a Monaro GTS as an 8Q37 VIN in my eyes.

Sorry off topic I know ....

[mauser]

hmmmm my bad choice of words. I guess that's why I'm an IT guy not a policy writer... haha. I rescind the word "pretend". :-) I was just being flippant.

Mauser

[Vombil]

kinda off track a little but i thought id share this story

A few years ago I found a cheap VZ SS ute in QU and caught a flight over to drive it back to WA. A mate of mine came with me. He found a VZ s-pac 1 tonner with gen3 6-speed with 4,500 kms on the clock. Before he got there he knew he was buying a repaired 'repairable write off' that had been lovely bought back to life by a father and son that own a panel shop on the sunny coast. The ute was seriously smashed in the front at 600kms... totaled on the first tank of fuel!!! This tonner had THE MOST AMAZING custom painted steel tray ive seen. It looked like sheet glass. 200 hours of hard labor went into the tray alone!

So we got home no problems. The big Austrian hadnt owned a dirty big V8 before (fuel is expensive in Europe) and it wasnt long before he drove it front on into a tree at 60km/hr and the motor nearly ended up in the cab! The insurance paid him out over $20K and he bought a well body VZ SS shortly after.

After that we would always speculate as to what would become of that tonner with bullshit hot tray... until.... 2 year later it turned up on carsales.... in NSW!!! A bloke (Lebanese i think) answered the phone and proceeded to tell me a pack of flat out lies like he did the tray himself and spent $5000 on wheels and suspension etc etc. After I called him out on all his bullshit he ended up telling me he owned a panel shop and then i hung up on him.

So here is an example of a MODERN vehicle that only has 15,000 kms on the clock and has been completely buckled and bent TWICE!

Its a miracle if a sandman gets into 30+ years of life without being rusted out completely or bent; needing a body or even forbid,.. a chassis change

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[MENTION=225]HK1837[/MENTION] i found a number with letter (eg L45687) stamped into the b pillar on the driver side. it was under the paint and i had door and fender off to see it! do you know what this is?

[HK1837]

I agree Byron 1837s are the premium and I don't beleive the GTS/4s are pretenders either. I was just using the similar scenario between XV4/XW8 & XX7/XU3 to make a point for those who consider a Monaro (HQ-HZ) to be a coupe and the sedan version are pretenders.

Although HQ GTS/4s share the same model number as Kingswood V8, an 8Q69 VIN is as much a Monaro GTS as an 8Q37 VIN in my eyes.

Sorry off topic I know ....

I think you'll find most people see them as "pretend" Monaros, I like to simply call them GTS which is what GMH did in HZ. This has some basis in fact as the 4 door was supposed to be an SS just like it is today and has been since VH era and how the pilot HQ 4 door "sports" vehicle was. Marketing took the ball and not only ran with it but molested it, and hence the Monaro name ended up on the 4 door. However just because the 4 door GTS shouldn't have been a Monaro, doesn't mean it wasn't meant to be a premium performance vehicle in XW8 guise. They are still desirable vehicles, and at least they are all V8's.

--- Updated ---

kinda off track a little but i thought id share this story

[/COLOR][MENTION=225]HK1837[/MENTION] i found a number with letter (eg L45687) stamped into the b pillar on the driver side. it was under the paint and i had door and fender off to see it! do you know what this is?

Looks like a PSN. Compare it to the VIN plate last half. Did you take a photo?

[wbute]

My HX Sandman ute has the numbers stamped in the B pillars in the same place. I asked this question 18 months ago and was met with silence. I assumed they were a body identification number. However they are different from side to side. Just a letter is different I seem to recall. You can't see these numbers unless the front guards are off. Its a Sydney built ute.