Counterfeit Sandmans

[HQVAN]

Hey everyone,

It would seem this is a pretty hot subject on here at the moment and I felt like having a say on the issue.

As we are all aware the price of aussie muscle cars have skyrocketed in recent years, putting them beyond the reach of most people. This in turn increases lesser models of the same shape/style as well. Replicas of all the popular models have always been an issue, but in my opinion they have there place. Who wouldn't like to drive around in a phase III replica? I wouldn't care if it wasn't original at least it didn't have the $500,000 price tag...
Imagine what you could do to the performance of that replica if you spent just part of the difference in price on it? It would outperform the original, that's for sure!

I also think that replica sandmans have there place as well, it is such an icon I bet there would be alot of people who would love to drive a replica. As it has been said it only becomes an issue when it comes time to sell and it is passed off as being an original.

Mega buck restorations of original sandmans are likely to be a good investment, provided they are done legally.... I'll let you guys argue that one out.

One of the reasons I don't mind not having a sandman is that I feel it just limits you to much, you cannot change colors, interiors, drivelines, anything without affecting its originality. I would just feel way to limited creatively. But that is my opinion and I can completely understand the mentality of keeping things original, its just too valuable and rare a model to start messing with it. (I imagine I would be crucified on this site for messing with an original!) - but saying that some of my favourite old school show vans started off as sandmans and I would hate to see them changed back!!

Another point I wanted to raise relates to your debate on chassis/body/compliance plates. I had a look at my van before and found that my chassis number is on the compliance plate on the drivers side, and also my body shell is stamped with a number as well - next to the compliance plate on the passenger side. Has anyone else noticed this with theirs?

[thatotherguy]

i agree with you, if you found out alley cat or any other show van with history was a genuine sandman would you restore it back to original? i know i wouldnt i have also seen a Hq van with a number stamped on the body . i am going up to see the guy that owns it this weekend so i will take some pics i was told they only did that with the HQSS

[V6HQUTE]

ive seen a few utes with the firewall stamped

[Blocker]

... (I imagine I would be crucified on this site for messing with an original!) - but saying that some of my favourite old school show vans started off as sandmans and I would hate to see them changed back!!

I hope not, one thing mySandman is and should always be is open to creativity - regardless is the van/ute is original or custom. I think we all appreciate them however they come

[TwoTees]

2t...i dont need to be diplomatic..i live in a real world not one of fantasy by irrelevant documents...i also do this stuff everday for a living as stated before and have done for 30 years.
problem here is you get one anal person and there opinion via documents that no one ever takes any notice of and they become an expert without any experience.
if these documents are so correct why have i done what they say cant be done ?...LEGALLY..
its only that people have big mouths that this stuff becomes a debate about what is and isnt legal..also people read the type of document you put up and they get paranoid that it cant be done...BUT IT CAN...and legally..

Yes you can do it legally as you have done but if the ute that you started with was a Sandman how could you ever convince any one that it was genuine with 2 ADR plates? and a panel van body tag that was not sandman? What you did was legal and documented with the resulting plates. If some clown was to take a Sandman, re-shell it (Not re-body) the tags will not document what has happened to the vehicle and not be legal. This is what we are talking about.

Is the GT in unique cars able to be registered again? NO! People do take these documents seriously.

I am not claiming to be any sort of expert. I simply do not believe everything I hear. Even from people who have been in the industry for 30 years. So I went out and researched what is correct and what is not. I have made plenty of phone calls to tech officers in the RTA to get their opinions and they generally reflect what I am reading.
You as an "industry professional" have been advocating re-birthing on a public forum. You wear your "Classic OZ wreck" hat when you are here and that bears weight with how people take your advice. I really hope that there is no one here that has started a re-shell on your advice and if there is, that they do not have any problems in the future.

At least now they can read the rules and know what sort of questions they should be asking, then make an informed decision as to how they will repair their vehicle.

[Robbo]

Well put @ Blocker.

[HQVAN]

i agree with you, if you found out alley cat or any other show van with history was a genuine sandman would you restore it back to original? i know i wouldnt i have also seen a Hq van with a number stamped on the body . i am going up to see the guy that owns it this weekend so i will take some pics i was told they only did that with the HQSS

I think Alley Cat may have been, I would have to check, but I know for a fact Checkmate is an original Sandman, there is no way I would want to see that changed back!

--- Updated ---

I hope not, one thing mySandman is and should always be is open to creativity - regardless is the van/ute is original or custom. I think we all appreciate them however they come

Good to hear Blocker, I still wouldn't do it to an original Sandman

I will do what I want to my good ol' HQ....

[hainzy]

Good debate. Again. Even if it is going down the same track. I like how everyone has different angles on this good ol debate!

I also reckon it comes down to how much you pay for a car.

I mean if you have a matching numbers car, its worth lets say 30k. If you have a car with a different era engine but otherwise matching, then it might be worth 25... if you have a car with a different chassis or police number or missing tags, it might be worth 10 to 15k.. Im just making these amounts up, but my point is that you should get what you pay for value-wise. If you buy a car and you know the numbers dont add up, but its registerable and you pay minimal coin for it, then everyones happy. You drive the car and enjoy it. If you pay more for it cos you think its something its not and you find out, then youre p*#*d off and driving the car is no longer enjoyable.

I have an LX SL/R torana but it has the wrong engine and a police chassis number. As such I know its worth less than a matching numbers one. Im doing a bit of a resto on it, but not spending megabucks and not expecting megabucks if i ever sell it. Ill enjoy it for what it is. A cool aussie classic. It turns a bogans head, and that same bogan says 'awesome' as it whizzes past. That bogan doesnt check the numbers. He just sees the cool car.

Same with sandmans. If its not matching numbers, dont over invest and dont over expect returns if you sell it. However cars are to be enjoyed so if youre only doing it for yourself and not the resale then do whatever you want.

My point...?? I cant remember anymore, but a cars only worth what you can sell it for...

[HK1837]

Agree Greg. By my understanding, the RTA bloke that told you to put the ute's ADR plate on the van body was misreading their own rules. The way I read it you should have ended up with the ute's chassis and the van's ID plates, not 2 x ADR plates. Doesn't matter anyway, you did what you were instructed to so it is all legal. Again shows how stupid the rules are!

[TwoTees]

Hainzy,
I reckon you are spot on. I agree a vehicle is worth what it is and not what it has been made to look like. As long as no one is doing any thing to deceive I have no problem with it. If you are buying a matching number sandman it should be just that. Not an ex plumbers van with a different vehicles identity grafted to it.

Here's a classic example on evil bay
HG Monaro GTS V8 manual tags (saginaw) BRISBANE BUILD highly desired combo HK HT
hg tags.jpg
What will become of these? Will someone pay a lot of money for this desirable combo perhaps attached to a 161 base model monaro?

It has been suggested before and I would suggest it again that a register of dodgy ID's be started and when ever a dodgy set of tags or a completely rusted out piece of crap with matching numbers comes up for sale they are recorded and recorded and stored in a way that google can find numbers (ie not just photos but photos and text) and it may just save someone some heartache after they part with a large amount of cash for what they think is a genuine desirable vehicle.
Even my van should go on it because it has not got the original chassis. If it turns up one day with a matching chassis you can find out that once upon a time it was not matching. It will never be matching while in my possession. It is what it is and will stay what it is. A Sandman that has been in an accident and repaired with a used chassis.