Counterfeit Sandmans

[hx-sandman]

Without naming names has anyone come across any fake/counterfeit Sandman in the past 12/24 months for sale online?

Do you think there has been an increase in purposely faking a Sandman or do you think people are still not educated enough to know the difference.

I've seen some selectively advertised "Sandman's". Using paint and trim as proof, neglecting to mention the seating capacity of 3 or that they are HX/HZ Kingswoods.

It's certainly able to be done with a little bit of information and a little bit of work. It's not difficult to get tags made/re-made and as a Sandman wasn't a performance model, just an expensive non kingswood, kingswood with (or without) stickers, the list of bits is fairly short.

[mauser]

Sandman wasn't a performance model, just an expensive non kingswood, kingswood with (or without) stickers, the list of bits is fairly short.

Nither was an SLR5000, SS hatch, GTR Torana, SS HQ, or the pretenders HJ-Z Monaro.... Sandmans fit in here!

In my opinion of course.

Mauser


My first two cars were bog stock ex-family cars.

LCGTR1.jpgbluelh.jpg

... it's just that they had race-bred cousins.

[hx-sandman]

Nither was an SLR5000, SS hatch, GTR Torana, SS HQ, or the pretenders HJ-Z Monaro....

In my opinion of course.

Mauser


My first two cars were bog stock ex-family cars.


... it's just that they had race-bred cousins.

Agree about performance, as for race bred cousins, it's all relative to the era.

[HK1837]

Nither was an SLR5000, SS hatch, GTR Torana, SS HQ, or the pretenders HJ-Z Monaro.... Sandmans fit in here!

In my opinion of course.

Mauser

... it's just that they had race-bred cousins.

SLR or SS with optional 5.0L was more of a performance car than a HK-HG GTS Monaro or HT-HG with optional 253!

By pretenders HJ-HZ Monaro I assume you mean 4 doors? If so you should say 4 door HQ-HZ Monaros (or really 4 door HQ-HX Monaro). HJ GTS coupe is as mch a Monaro as a HQ coupe is! And HJ-HZ GTS sedan is at least plated as a Monaro! HQ's are optioned Kingswoods.

[mauser]

haha ok... I was trying to put them in era.. ie '71 - 80. I stand corrected with the 4-door. Personally I think an optioned L31 in a Torana is the same as your king of Sandmans L31/M41. No mechanical performance parts on any of them.

Do you see the Sandman standing in with the standard SLR/SS/GTS4 etc cars of the era?

Mauser

ps I do think the 350 in the 2&4 door HQ as special. Forgot the HZ was only a GTS... and ooopppss off topic.

[SNDMN]

By pretenders HJ-HZ Monaro I assume you mean 4 doors? If so you should say 4 door HQ-HZ Monaros (or really 4 door HQ-HX Monaro). HJ GTS coupe is as mch a Monaro as a HQ coupe is! And HJ-HZ GTS sedan is at least plated as a Monaro! HQ's are optioned Kingswoods.

If an optioned HQ Kingswood (80469 + XV4 or XW8) is a 'pretend' Monaro does that make an optioned Belmont/Kingswood ute/van
(80480/80270/8WM70/80 etc + XX7 or XU3) a 'pretend' Sandman???

[HK1837]

If an optioned HQ Kingswood (80469 + XV4 or XW8) is a 'pretend' Monaro does that make an optioned Belmont/Kingswood ute/van
(80480/80270/8WM70/80 etc + XX7 or XU3) a 'pretend' Sandman???

It isn't a pretend GTS at all. If it was, then XU-1, L34 and A9X would mean nothing either. Remember XV4 and XW8 are not oddballs. They are the norm. The ONLY premium performance "muscle" GMH cars (HK-HQ and then Torana era) that weren't options on lesser vehicles were the HK-HQ 1837 coupes. The rest were option packs on lower spec vehicles, and this should include Sandmans if you include XV4 HQ in the group.

--- Updated ---

Hey HK1837, here are some shots of my compliance plates and the stamp that appears on the cowl, from what I have been told and can work out, the van was built in dandenong, belmont, was a 6 cylinder (not sure which), 3 speed manual colomn shift, white paint with brown interior, does this sound right to you?

My chassis number appears on the one located on the drivers side cowl. Suggesting it is the original chassis and body.
Could you explain the codes for me, and the stamp on the cowl?

Cheers,
Karl.

IMAG0396.jpgIMAG0389.jpgIMAG0391.jpgIMAG0393.jpgIMAG0394.jpg

I can't really help you on the cowl number on this one as it is a Dandenong assembly. However i'll give you a clue: go and find an Elizabeth assembled 6cyl HQ van with a similar BODY number (off the body plate) and look at its chassis number. See if you see any similarity.

[SNDMN]

It isn't a pretend GTS at all. If it was, then XU-1, L34 and A9X would mean nothing either. Remember XV4 and XW8 are not oddballs. They are the norm. The ONLY premium performance "muscle" GMH cars (HK-HQ and then Torana era) that weren't options on lesser vehicles were the HK-HQ 1837 coupes. The rest were option packs on lower spec vehicles, and this should include Sandmans if you include XV4 HQ in the group.[COLOR="Silver"]

I agree Byron 1837s are the premium and I don't beleive the GTS/4s are pretenders either. I was just using the similar scenario between XV4/XW8 & XX7/XU3 to make a point for those who consider a Monaro (HQ-HZ) to be a coupe and the sedan version are pretenders.

Although HQ GTS/4s share the same model number as Kingswood V8, an 8Q69 VIN is as much a Monaro GTS as an 8Q37 VIN in my eyes.

Sorry off topic I know ....

[mauser]

hmmmm my bad choice of words. I guess that's why I'm an IT guy not a policy writer... haha. I rescind the word "pretend". :-) I was just being flippant.

Mauser

[HK1837]

I agree Byron 1837s are the premium and I don't beleive the GTS/4s are pretenders either. I was just using the similar scenario between XV4/XW8 & XX7/XU3 to make a point for those who consider a Monaro (HQ-HZ) to be a coupe and the sedan version are pretenders.

Although HQ GTS/4s share the same model number as Kingswood V8, an 8Q69 VIN is as much a Monaro GTS as an 8Q37 VIN in my eyes.

Sorry off topic I know ....

I think you'll find most people see them as "pretend" Monaros, I like to simply call them GTS which is what GMH did in HZ. This has some basis in fact as the 4 door was supposed to be an SS just like it is today and has been since VH era and how the pilot HQ 4 door "sports" vehicle was. Marketing took the ball and not only ran with it but molested it, and hence the Monaro name ended up on the 4 door. However just because the 4 door GTS shouldn't have been a Monaro, doesn't mean it wasn't meant to be a premium performance vehicle in XW8 guise. They are still desirable vehicles, and at least they are all V8's.

--- Updated ---

kinda off track a little but i thought id share this story

[/COLOR][MENTION=225]HK1837[/MENTION] i found a number with letter (eg L45687) stamped into the b pillar on the driver side. it was under the paint and i had door and fender off to see it! do you know what this is?

Looks like a PSN. Compare it to the VIN plate last half. Did you take a photo?