Advice from LPG users

**Steve** · 13-01-2012, 10:29 PM

Hi Tony, I'm new to mysandman, but have used LPG since 96 until late last year.

I friend used to sell the equipment, so I was lucky to get the conversion done very cheaply BUT, the bottom line is if you don't do the k's there is no point as you won't get your money back! Back then the workshops where charging about $1500 supply and install (Kit was worth $700) these days I hear it's about $2500-$3000, like most things, when the government starts hanging out money up go the prices!!!

The 1st car we did was a WB statesman, put about 200,000 k's on it, duel fuel, bit hard to start when cold on gas, besides that, didn't miss a beat. Didn't matter what the temp, traffic conditions, towing or not, high speed, low speed. 300 k's a tank, no matter what you were doing. Took that system, put it on a old tonner with a 2nd tank under the tray, ran that for a couple of more years 600 plus k's out of both tanks plus fuel if needed. Then that system was spit up with most of it going into an SL/E statey. In both cases, put the filler behind the number plate (hate seeing those big holes they put in rear quarters for the filler's) no need with a bit of extra effort! The 2nd tank ended up under and WB 253 van, ran that for about 5 years. Bolted the filler to the rear panel beside number plate, ran hose in through hole for winch handle, nice and neat, no extra cutting. Always found the higher the speed you were going the easier it was to change back to petrol, used to leave them on petrol if car was going to be sitting, keeps everything wet that way.
But I did hear that starting sooner than later the government is going to start taxing LPG, gradually over a 5 year period, if so, you can kiss any saving good bye. When we 1st used it, the price was about a 3RD of the petrol price, then it went through the roof, tripled in price in 2000 (went from 25-30 to 60 cents a litre) that hurt the pocket, but then fuel started climbing, so the savings came back, plus the system owed me nothing so that helps. When it's about 1/2 the price or less of petrol you are saving heaps, when it goes above that, you start to lose (depending, of course, on how much the system owes you).
Plus the only thing i used to do tuning wise was open up the plugs a few thou more than normal and I had always had an electronic dissy. And on both cars I was using the 425 impco carby that hainzy mentioned plus all the other bits my friend supplies are out of the USA.
Hope this helps, any questions, feel drop us a line, will try to help out,
cheers steve

**rallyvan** · 14-01-2012, 09:53 AM

Don't have much experience with dual fuel set ups as all the vehicles with LPG I have owned have been straight gas set ups. The big limitation I have found has been the distance you can travel on a tank of LPG and the avaliblity of LPG in Western parts of NSW. Think west of Bathurst. I had an LPG system in a HX parts van I had but didn't keep the LPG system for the replica van build as it will be a weekend car so fuel bill should be bearable.
I am wondering if you can buy ignition only computers that allow you to have two igition timing curves so you can have a LPG and petrol setting?
The other issue I have found with LPG is the cost of the stuff when you get further and further from a capital city. The price of LPG seems to rise at a much stepper rate than petrol has been my observation.

Anthony

**HK1837** · 14-01-2012, 12:36 PM

You can use a VN-VP Delco computer as ignition only. Just run the dizzy, module, MAP and other sensors sensors and mount the TPS off the throttlebody onto the carb. Then remove all the fuel wiring. Buy a Moates switching sandwich plate (fits between the ROM and the Memcal) and double stack a program onto the Memcal, running 2 x spark maps. Pretty easy to do, when doing the programs just disable the fuel stuff so the ignition keeps working. I have an old McGee airsensors 4 barrel injector setup here that I was thinking would work well on a red motor, using a Delco ECU. It takes a standard aircleaner, and looks like a carb but has 4 x injectors in the baseplate. Nice simple way to keep it old school but run modern EFI and spark control. A 4 barrel LPG hat will fit on top of it too. You could easily do the same thing with a Chev TBI throttlebody which does the same thing, these were on Holden Suburbans.

**wbute** · 14-01-2012, 01:20 PM

Yep agree with the limitations of LPG in rural NSW. My nearest servo that sells LPG is 85km or 100km away. Counts me out.
It is theoretically a better fuel than petrol. Sad our governments are too weak to actually promote the use of it.

**Alien DNA** · 14-01-2012, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by HK1837

Not only that, you can build yourself up an 11:1 308 out of an EFI engine, run all the injection of a VN-VR and double stack the ROM on the Memcal to have 2 x programs in it, which you cn flick between with a dash mounted switch. One would be set with optimal spark for 98 octane fuel. The other setup optimal for LPG or E85 or whatever else you want to run.

That sounds like a fantastic setup!!!

I'll keep that in mind for a future project

**commodorenut** · 15-01-2012, 01:02 AM

I'm running higher compression in mine - in fact, it's on gas because the original heads had so much milled off them, that it pinged it's head off on petrol, even at 6 degrees advance & light throttle.

We've had a string of dual & single-fuel gas cars through the family, and the sad thing with the 308s is the carby dries out when you're on gas, and if you don't keep running petrol through it on a very regular basis, then it stuffs up easily. With a carby motor and a points or HEI dizzy, you really need to tune it for one or the other - everything else is a compromise. Electronics with dual spark maps helps solve the ignition issue, but can't compensate for compression - gas loves compression.

And you don't have to have an ugly engine bay. With a bit of thought, it can almost be hidden - especially if you're running a factory aircleaner. I've mounted the convetor on a bracket I made to sit where the coil normally goes. The heater hoses run up the rocker cover (like normal) into it. The lock-off is mounted on the back of the convertor bracket's support (which is bolted to a bellhousing bolt) and I run a (certified) flexible liquid feed line down the trans tunnel - bolted in with P clamps. It allows for engine rock & movement. If I sit a factory air cleaner in place, you can only just see the back edge of the convertor.

**SNDMN** · 15-01-2012, 08:27 AM

This is why I love this forum so much ... there's always a great cross section of information, help and advice from everyone sharing real-life experience.
A BIG thank you to all for your feedback, it really has given me ideas and info on the options available and things to look out for.

Out of curiousity I'm taking my van to our local gas installer to have a sit down chat with him next week. I had a brief chew on his ear yesterday, he's an old school mechanic who's been doing gas instals here since 1971 and seemed to know exactly what I was asking about, has the parts, has the knowledge, has the tanks etc, etc. He reckons he'd fit an 80 litre tank in for dual and can add a second 40/50 litre one in where the petty tank goes if I went straight gas.

Thanks again to all for you advice, it's been a great help. cheers Tony

**SLR_dave** · 14-04-2013, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by SNDMN

This is why I love this forum so much ... there's always a great cross section of information, help and advice from everyone sharing real-life experience.
A BIG thank you to all for your feedback, it really has given me ideas and info on the options available and things to look out for.

Out of curiousity I'm taking my van to our local gas installer to have a sit down chat with him next week. I had a brief chew on his ear yesterday, he's an old school mechanic who's been doing gas instals here since 1971 and seemed to know exactly what I was asking about, has the parts, has the knowledge, has the tanks etc, etc. He reckons he'd fit an 80 litre tank in for dual and can add a second 40/50 litre one in where the petty tank goes if I went straight gas.

Thanks again to all for you advice, it's been a great help. cheers Tony

Hi Tony,
I realise your last post in this thead is from 15 months ago, but this seems to be the major LPG thread on the site, and I'm really interested to know if you went ahead with the LPG conversion, and if so, how you found it.

Mostly Im interested in economy of LPG over petrol ($) in stop start general in town driving, as well as on the highway. I'm interested to understand what sort of kilometre range you can get for dollars on LPG in current terms.
I have been ready to swap to LPG fo years, I have most of the gear ready to go for my kingy wagon, (impco set up for 253) but everytime I go to do it, somebody has convinced me not to, and I kept putting it to the side. I know a few people running around on LPG and they reckon it costs them nothing, but I'm looking at the prices at the pump, and LPG going up compared to ten years back, and I have to wonder, what sort of mileage can a HX van get these days for 65lt of lpg?

Sure environmentally it is much cleaner, so thats a bonus in itself, but I have to ask myself if it is it one I can afford... bearing conversion costs, even if I do most of the install job myself and then get it hooked up and certified (which also means inspection every 24 months or so, and a fee for that).

So I wondered if you did decide to go ahead with LPG! And, if so, if I could ask, just generally, how you have found it? What sort of milage per tank, city and highway etc - roughly if thats easy to answer? What sort of prices are being asked for LPG in your state, and would you recommend it etc? For me if I do it the vehicle will either be HX Sandman or HJ wagon or both, so this seems a good thread to post this in. Thank you in advance for you time in looking at this, I realise you may not se it for a while, it is an old thread!
Dave.

**ozbox** · 18-04-2013, 01:49 PM

all my cars for years now have been gas...sinbox is straight gas with 350 chev and i get around 450k to 90 ltrs..if i want to go bush i take a bbq gas bottle and a special hose i had made..bit of stuffing around but i can refill if i run out..never have yet though.any dual fuel cars ive had over the years ive had tuned to gas as i would only use fuel if i was forced too..i like my gas cars..currently also have an 80 series landcruiser on dual fuel and it does 350 to 450 k depending on wether im towing or not..again on about 90 litres..

**Jeza** · 18-04-2013, 10:08 PM

I've never had a gas car until this HZ Sandman. Its a 308 auto with straight gas with twin tanks that sit either side if the tailshaft. It's just a cruiser geared pretty high with 3.08 at a guess. I would say its gets about 300km to 50lts. I haven't fully sussed the economy...

One thing I'm curious about is the availability of gas across the nullabor? I'm thinking of heading across to Perth and doing a trip up the NW coast. Does anyone know?

Like to hear and see more about ozbox's special gas hose?

Jeza