GTS Steering Wheels

[mauser]

Les, thanks for answering our questions. My opinion is RS arnt making people buy the items if they dont like them and they would be definitly worse off without having rare spares delivering the stock they do to restorers like us.

Feedback from restorers is valid when the item is not fit for purpose and thanks for taking it on-board. There is nothing stopping any of us dropping into a rares outlet and examining the product prior to purchase. If it doesnt fit or is obviously not of acceptable quality I believe we can return the goods for a refund.

I think I would rather pay more for a new wheel from you than spend $200 bucks on an ebay item only to find it broken upon recieving it.

Mauser

[wbute]

A couple of points
If it was a cost cutting exercise so what are we not allowed to save money.
To make the thicker spoke would cost bugger all .
We are not responsible for what the customer does but in case of accident if the thicker spoke wheel was fitted there is a possibility of legal action against us so why take the chance.
Les

Why take the chance on making any parts then? Give the monopoly with Holden to someone else. As far as I see, Rare Spares have taken the deal to supply parts to Holden then they also have commitment to car restorers to make the correct parts. If you can't meet that responsibility, don't take it on.

[Les]

Why take the chance on making any parts then? Give the monopoly with Holden to someone else. As far as I see, Rare Spares have taken the deal to supply parts to Holden then they also have commitment to car restorers to make the correct parts. If you can't meet that responsibility, don't take it on.

Last year we made over 800 parts, we take a chance on every part that we make , we invest thousands of dollars sometimes tens of thousands of dollar in making parts , why would we want to increase the risks with legal problems that may occur .

If you or anyone else wishes to take the chance on making the thin spoke wheel go ahead but be aware of the possible legal problems that may occur.

[ambientgoat]

Why take the chance on making any parts then? Give the monopoly with Holden to someone else. As far as I see, Rare Spares have taken the deal to supply parts to Holden then they also have commitment to car restorers to make the correct parts. If you can't meet that responsibility, don't take it on.

I would disagree that anyone has a responsibility to supply parts for a machine that would be classed as well and truely obsolete by the manufacturer. In my old job where we designed an manufactured things, after about 8 years a product was deemed to be unsupported and no more spares or otherwise were held in stock.
So to my mind, having rares around is a great thing for all of us that want to keep our old girls on the road long after most people would have 'upgraded' to a newer model.

That said, of course we want these parts to be acurate, and we will and have complained loudly when they're not and don't fit. Which as far as I can tell has helped rares to produce a better quality of part by adapting to the wants of their customer.

[the ski man]

So to my mind, having rares around is a great thing for all of us that want to keep our old girls on the road long after most people would have 'upgraded' to a newer model.

That said, of course we want these parts to be acurate, and we will and have complained loudly when they're not and don't fit. Which as far as I can tell has helped rares to produce a better quality of part by adapting to the wants of their customer.

Fully agree there AG, going on the pics of these new wheels they are a super improvement on the older ones RS made, so much so that my NOS will probably go back in its box and i'll put a RS one on the car to wear out instead. For me its nice having the nos wheel on the car while its on display but now that the RS ones are just as good anyone walking past wont see it as a NOS wheel, but as a rares one anyway.

I like that RS are listening to constructive feedback and investing heaps on product improvement and new products, although some items are made to suit across models and are not exactly correct to the way it was for your cars particular year, trim code, wind direction at time of manufacture or solar alignment of the moon... its still better than not having an accurate remake in the first place.

my feedback to the guys from RS is, they shouldnt have made these wheels so good, now everyone will have a wheel as good as my NOS one. :P

[Taily]

Last year we made over 800 parts, we take a chance on every part that we make , we invest thousands of dollars sometimes tens of thousands of dollar in making parts , why would we want to increase the risks with legal problems that may occur .

If you or anyone else wishes to take the chance on making the thin spoke wheel go ahead but be aware of the possible legal problems that may occur.

Thanks Les (whomever you are) for taking the time to put some info on here about what Rares sees the issues as being. I don't think the issue was the thin spoke wheels, just that fact that Rares have made a decision that leaves the HQ-HJ Monaro, SS, Sandman etc owners out in the cold when trying to build an accurate restoration, ie; the request to for Rares to look at a remake of the 5mm wheel in addition to the 3mm one you've done. Apart from maybe the jig, what extra work would be involved? The CNC part of the production would be the same.

The issue of product liability for the incorrect use of a 5mm wheel might be reasonably easy to address in so far as product labelling/stamping. I am aware of the US laws are/were a bit over the top in the late 90's but that has swung back the other way and now places more onus back on the person fitting the device/part to the vehicle (where the onus should be) that they are fitting the correct part that complies with the design rules as applicable for that vehicle. Design rules these days are still orientated to the application or intended use of the part being produced, not as claimed to comply with current legislation for vehicles produced now. An example of this would be metal door handles, widow winders etc for use in passenger vehicles. If the rules were as claimed you wouldn't be able to manufacture, let alone market, these items as they no longer comply with intrusion standards - but because they will only fit certain vehicles they can still be manufactured/marketted and sold to the end user.

Might be worthwhile talking to your legal team as I believe there is certainly viability in even a limited run of 5mm wheels (I'd like the first one or the product tester please!!!!)... wink wink... :single_eye:

Another option might be a refurbishment service where a client supplies their own 5mm wheel and for the associated cost has the old wheel x-rayed/magnafluxed or dye penned for cracks, the old worn-out outer rim veneer stripped-off and a new one put on? I reckon you'll find a pretty interested market for that one! The obvious issue there would be any defect noted in the customer's 5mm wheel. If your 3mm wheels are that close to original the 5mm wheel should be able to be refurbed as I suggest.

Thanks again for taking the time to both reproduce a wheel that is a dead ringer for an original and for taking the time to reply here.

Regards

Dave.

[wbute]

I suppose they are only a reproduction, in the long run if you want a concourse resto (or just an accurate one) you need to find new old stock.

[playwme]

It's a reproduction piece. What's a couple of mm's on a spoke if it's not a genuine item anyway? Only time that would really be a problem would be if you were trying to pass off a repro as a NOS genuine one. I'm sure it would be a significant extra cost to reproduce one with different spokes. Can't be as easy as simpy changing the program on a CNC machine (those spokes couldn't be CNC cut could they?)

[Absinth]

It's a reproduction piece. What's a couple of mm's on a spoke if it's not a genuine item anyway? Only time that would really be a problem would be if you were trying to pass off a repro as a NOS genuine one.

yep... That's the mentality that will keep Rare Spares supplying incorrect crap to the masses. I don't want to pass repro off as Nos, I just want a part that is a correct reproduction of the part that I am replacing in my car... model and year of manufacture.... Not incorrect later production parts just because they can be retro-fitted. Might as well put Commodore seats in your HQ Monaro...

I have been catching up and reading through old threads and cannot believe the poor info in this thread.
It is also really hard to have any confidence in the parts being produced by Rares when their staff are supplying incorrect information.

Current ADR requirement is that the wheel spokes must conform to the required thickness and performance. These wheels are ADR approved. earlier HQ series had the thicker spokes.

we are restoring 1970's vehicles.... What have current ADR requirements got to do with it?

Here are a couple of comments from restoration specialists."Had a look and feel of the new GTR/GTS/SLR/SS steering wheel at Rares Virginia yesterday, fantastic job, they are perfect." "Got my brand new gts steering wheel yesterday in the mail from Rare Spares looks like a brand new genuine wheel.It has the 3 mm thick spokes like hx hz wb, not the 5 mm thick hq and hj, but you would be hard pushed to pick the differance between this wheel and an original other than it has zero wear." so my recommendation is that people look at the new wheels

Restoration specialists????? I wouldn't want them restoring my pride and joy when they don't even know the correct part for each model!!!

I have just had discussions with Vicroads who confirm that our obligation at Rare Spares is to produce a steering wheel that conforms to current ADR 12 requirements. You can view the ADR on the Government web site.The take on GMH saving money is yours as the ADR's were taken from European Standards that were in place at the time. To have their vehicles comply then a number of changes were made by GMH, which included the wheels. This has been confirmed by ex Bridgestone management who were involved in the changes. Having a HQ with a thicker spoke wheel still allows it to retain it's registration, however it's when a NEW wheel is fitted that is the concern.The liability is if people decide to fit a thicker spoke wheel to anything other than a HQ. We don't make the legislation but have to follow it.

ADR 12- glare reduction in field of view. This standard ceased to have effect for new vehicles as from 09/12/2003


I think you mean regulation 12 under ADR 10. This does not apply to vehicles manufactured in the 70's and 80's.

No thick spoke wheel after HQ??? Really? Do you not have copies of HJ, HX and HZ parts manuals?

If Vic roads are telling you that a new reproduction steering wheel to be fitted to a 1970's car has to comply with current ADR requirements then they don't know their own legislation.

Please be advised that the ADR's are not specific vehicle identified. A vehicle must meet all the ADR requirements if it is ADR applicable. Some vehicles may be exempt.It is the owners responsibility to maintain a vehicle in ADR requirements, as governed by the federal and state road authorities. That is one reason that people get pulled up or have regular roadworthy inspections.To get a better understanding of regulations etc it may be more informative for you to speak to someone from your state transport authority. As for the parts themselves it is often people modifying vehicles that look at what they can interchange and make those decisions.

ADRs are vehicle specific according to it's date of manufacture. The rest is irrelevant.

FACT:
The motor vehicle standards act 1989 requires that all registered vehicles comply with the relevant ADR's as at the time of manufacture.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/

To make the thicker spoke would cost bugger all .
We are not responsible for what the customer does but in case of accident if the thicker spoke wheel was fitted there is a possibility of legal action

so why not make it if it costs bugger all??? If you label it correctly there can be no legal action taken in the case of an accident. Holden was still selling part no. 2817164 as a replacement part after ADR-10b was revised.



For everyone's information.... Sports steering wheel part no. 2817164 (thick spoke) was used on HQ, HJ, HX and early HZ as listed in the parts manuals. I posted this information 2yrs ago but it seems no one took any notice. Why do you think there are so many thick spoke wheels on EBay and far less thin spoke ones??? They are also date stamped and there are plenty of 1977 dated ones around which has also been posted and ignored.

http://www.mysandman.com.au/forums/s...ares+GTS+wheel

ADR-10b ... Steering columns
Effective date 1st Jan 1973. Revised July 1977 - effective date 1st July 1988

Holden made the change effective from 1st Jan 1978 at the same time as ADR-25a.

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2006L02687

incedently, I purchased a plain gearstick knob for my HJ recently from Rares and the packaging was labeled HQ to HZ.... Now while it may fit HX and HZ it is not the correct part for these models.... Generic labelling, I find it appalling that their customers must research the correct part they need and check it is correct before making a purchase from Rare Spares.

[Les]

Absinth
We would love to produce the thicker spoke wheel but when you are advised by a Government body and our own legal team not to, you take their advice.
For your information all steering wheels must meet ADR10, you will find that HK HT HG wheels meet this ADR; it has nothing to do with the year the part was first made.
As for the gear shift knob I assume you are talking 4 speed part number 2817736 if so it is listed in the HQ – HZ books that I use, although it is superseded in the HZ on to 9946729 in later HZ’s.
Les