Survivor

**Taily** · 13-06-2012, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by HK1837

It is the description used by Bloomington Gold in the USA for Corvettes, and has spread to other marques. It doesn't cover rubbish, the car still has to retain 50% of its original paint, trim, underbonnet etc. Anything replaced starts reducing the %. My Premier barely qualifies and it is in very good condition. But it has had some things replaced, like water pump, some hoses, radiator (early on with a genuine one), head gaskets, muffler, mudflaps, tyres, shocks etc. In some areas it is down to 55-60% factory original.

I never quite looked at it like that but see your point. My HJ ute, albeit (two owners of the one family) with a total of 167,000km on it, has had possibly too much work in some areas to now qualify by that criteria outlined. In my 13 years of owning it (so far), along the way (and at different times) I've replaced all the front end bushes, all the ball joints (bar LH upper), reco-ed the power steering box, replaced front and rear shocks (including high lift rears), tie rod ends, pitman and dunno how many idler arms - and that is just the front end! I would think that ANY original fitment upper or lower inners of the early to late 70's still fitted to any HQ-WB being even semi-regularly driven would be beyond shagged by now....

My original fitment 308 has also had the heads done up in 2007 to accept hardened valve seats while I was replacing the cam and lifters that had finally chewed a lobe after 32 years, and while I was there replaced most (not all, the two heater hoses into the heater box still bear GM part numbers but I couldn't answer if these were replaced or not by my grandparents when they owned it) of the hoses, water pump, timing cover (corroded out from sitting for so many years), belts etc etc. It does have the original fine core H/D radiator (in that paperwork I sent you about it Byron) that was opened-up around 10 years ago and just needed rods run through it and a lick of paint after being put back together.

While around 70-75% of my body colour paint would be original, where the black-outs were covered-up in 1975 before delivery is still apparent, especially now I've actually gotten busy on stripping it down, most notable around the front doors and in a couple of spots where the paint was blended in around the rear guards/overspray under the ute tub. The ute was delivered like that and I must say I've been fortunate enough to be able to keep the old girl mostly covered or in a garage/shed while living around the top half of the country over the past 10 years so it has kept its shine.

I've always looked at mine as an original vehicle, especially having known the vehicle all of its life and looked after its needs mechanically since the mid 80's. I feel a bit different now thinking about just how many components (that have been fitted as direct replacement of the parts removed) that are original or direct replacent for original but because those components were not delivered on the vehicle originally... Hmmmm, I feel that the strict criteria of "x% of everything must be original" might apply more to an "Original Unrestored" category, but I guess they could call it what they liked. Difficult criteria to meet if you're fair dinkum about it. But I guess they would have to come up with something. Good on them for doing it.

**wbute** · 13-06-2012, 10:44 PM

Ah it takes the joy out of it for anyone but the trophy hunters. You can't have a survivor car and not maintain it. That includes using aftermarket parts where genuine original were no longer available.
I think the totally unused vehicle category and the survivor category have been confused here.

**HK1837** · 14-06-2012, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by wbute

Ah it takes the joy out of it for anyone but the trophy hunters. You can't have a survivor car and not maintain it. That includes using aftermarket parts where genuine original were no longer available.
I think the totally unused vehicle category and the survivor category have been confused here.

I think some of you (not pointing to you wb, but I just used your post to reply) are missing it a bit.

The cars can be maintained, but my point about my Premier is it has aftermarket shocks, lower balljoints, muffler, radiator, hoses, battery, oil filter, gaskets, cylinder head paint, master cylinder, exhaust manifold studs plus more. These are all items that can be seen to be aftermarket eg the radiator is a genuine GMH replacement but it is not the same as the original, it is a later National Radiators replacement sold by GMH. This is why the 50% rule applies, so that you can get it as right as you can. An example is I got some original paint rocker covers for my HJ off Goat, they aren't perfect but they are factory paint as someone painted the ones on mine when they did the head gaskets.

The intent of the Survivor class (this was copied from the US for the Monaro Nationals) was people were turning up with near mint Corvettes and were being knocked back for factory authentic due to faded paint or missing paint under the bonnet eg master cylinder leak created. Then they'd go an do a nuts and bolts resto on the car to make it right, but destroy its history. Yet this sort of car attracted the most interest by far at car shows, just like they do here. So by creating the Survivor class allowed them to leave the cars warts and all and see them appreciated and most importantly they survive.

Those 3 x Falcons in unique cars wouldn't be considered survivors as they haven't survived in essentially original condition.

**wbute** · 14-06-2012, 07:30 PM

Nah I am not missing the point, a survivor car is just that. It has survived, not been made to look like one through buying NOS parts and bolting them on.
If those falcons are not survivor cars then stuff the "experts". They are the cars people want to see. Warts and all cars in the condition that they were intended to be used in.
Seems to me that the people who determine what a survivor car is may well be the same weird people who buy brand new cars and lock them in garages and never drive them, hoping they will have the ultimate survivor car in years to come.
I hereby state that the official description of a survivor car is a load of crap. A true survivor car should be judged by spectators at a car show. They probably appreciate them more than the so called expert judges.

**HK1837** · 15-06-2012, 08:14 AM

Fair enough.

Note though that NOS parts normally would be treated just like aftermarket stuff and belong in the 50% that has not survived. Most of this stuff if different to the original bits in some way, eg it has part numbers on it (radiator hoses), it has changed for later series (eg lower control arms), plating finish is different (eg zinc vs gold coloured Utilux clamps).

Remember also that a car locked away untouched for 20 years probably wouldn't be a Survivor, it'd be Concours or Factory Authentic.

You'll find that the people at Bloomington Gold who came up with the Survivor concept for Corvettes know more about the cars than anyone else. Same with the guy who put it together for the 2010 Monaro Nationals. The whole idea was to discourage trophy hunters and encourage preservation of those few Survivors that still exist.
Adam, you are confusing Concours or Factory Authentic with Survivor. The whole idea of Survivor is to preserve, not for judging purposes. The class doesn't want you to touch the car other than to keep it operating. Some stuff has to be touched like balljoints, seals, mufflers etc. There will always be trophies for this class, but I think most people who have cars eligible are not trophy hunters. If their cars are good enough then they'll have a crack at people's choice and would probably appreciate it more (I know I would, and i'm sure everyone else here would too). At the 2010 Monaro Nationals my choice of car for People's choice would have been the white L30 MC7 HQ Kingswood sedan that was there, but I doubt many others would have picked the same car.

Originally Posted by wbute

Nah I am not missing the point, a survivor car is just that. It has survived, not been made to look like one through buying NOS parts and bolting them on.
If those falcons are not survivor cars then stuff the "experts". They are the cars people want to see. Warts and all cars in the condition that they were intended to be used in.
Seems to me that the people who determine what a survivor car is may well be the same weird people who buy brand new cars and lock them in garages and never drive them, hoping they will have the ultimate survivor car in years to come.
I hereby state that the official description of a survivor car is a load of crap. A true survivor car should be judged by spectators at a car show. They probably appreciate them more than the so called expert judges.

**playwme** · 14-06-2012, 08:38 PM

I'm with James. Couldn't give a squat what the anal retentive judges and organisations definitions are. If you're only into cars for the highest possible score given to you by a select few of your peers then your priorities are kinda screwed up.