Muscle, Street, Classic or other.

[HK1837]

I've always thought the original "definition" of a muscle car was always 2 door, V8, 4spd, 4barrel and the engine used was pulled from the next size car up and not available elsewhere in the same series. This is why the HK GTS327 is the only Aussie car that fits the bill. The identical spec 327 engine is shared with the Impala and Parisienne sold in parallel with the HK but not available elsewhere in HK. The HT and HG miss out because there was no bigger car with a 350 fitted and also the 350 engine is shared elsewhere in HT and HG on the GTS350 auto. If you exclude the requirement to be a V8, then the LC XU-1 fits as well. And you could also argue the A9X hatchback does too, although the existance of the 4 door A9X squashes it.
All an irrelevant discussion in Australia anyway as the 3 x highest performance 1970's Aussie production cars: late HG GTS350, Phase 2 Falcon (some will say Phase 3) and E49 Charger really deserve their place as the pinnacle of performance from their respective manufacturers.

[Valencia]

Sandmans are a classic
Muscle car i think not
handled like a wet paper bag even with rts but it wasnt designed to go to fast

[HK1837]

Sandmans are a classic
Muscle car i think not
handled like a wet paper bag even with rts but it wasnt designed to go to fast

Particularly when you sit back and think that as standard HQ and half of HJ Holden Sandman were standard with 173, HJ Kingswood Sandman and later HJ and HX Holden Sandman were standard with 202, plus HZ Sandman was standard with an ADR choked 2 barrel 4.2L that needed a 3.55:1 diff to make it feel faster than it was!

[Alien DNA]

I've always thought the Sandmans were 'classic street' !!!! They are more than 30yrs old!!

[wbute]

Lets forget the American definition for "muscle cars". It is a definition for American cars. We are Australian and our cars were built to suit Australia. To me an Australian muscle car was built with touring car racing as the goal, not drag racing as in America. So that would include A9X, L34, E38 and E 49 Chargers, S4 EH, all the GT falcons, XU1 etc etc. Clearly not a panel van or ute no mater what similarities they had to the sedan versions. They had n handling upgrades or performance improvements over the joe blow sedan or station wagon that mum or dad would buy to go shopping.
They were aimed at a target market of youth culture and they did that with great results that I would imagine made Holden good money in the day. All they needed to do was pick the right parts from the already developed parts bin and make them stand out with a sticker kit. No track or race development was used specifically for a Sandman.
They are a lifestyle vehicle and today they would be called a sports utility/van. Thats what they are.

[Blocker]

Having thought more about it, what paralells are there with the Holden Sandman if it was classed as a sports van/utility? What other cars would you put in this catagory for Sandman?

Here is a thought .. Recreational Sports Vehicle. Does that suit the Sandman and others of their ilk?

[wbute]

Having thought more about it, what paralells are there with the Holden Sandman if it was classed as a sports van/utility? What other cars would you put in this catagory for Sandman?

Here is a thought .. Recreational Sports Vehicle. Does that suit the Sandman and others of their ilk?

Well all the other utes/vans in that style like Sundowner, Drifter, escort and Gemini versions etc.They were as sporty as a commercial vehicle could be in the 70's, 4 on the floor, V8 option on some, sports instrumentation as standard,bucket seats etc.

[Valencia]

I wouldnt class a gts dash and gaurds and a v8 engine in a sandman as sports vehicle

[Blocker]

Considering the definition for a sports car I would agree with you. Oh please dont say the Sandman is an RV (Recriational Vehicle) lol

[Vombil]

must be in the blood line Dave. Im 1/2 American! I had no idea where the definition of muscle or sports car came from. 2 doors just feels right and looks right to me

I think a GTHO etc are just like an old skool rare HSV or FPV. anything with 4 doors is a family car/passenger carrying car. not a muscle or sports car in my opinion