Muscle, Street, Classic or other.

[Blocker]

So we all like a nice Sandman - HQ ute through to bright showy stickers on the HZ.

It's been asked before but what category would you put a Sandman in...

Street
Muscle
Classic
or something else?

Does the Sandman (and others of their time) stand alone as a piece of Australian motoring culture that has no category or pigeon hole?

[jennie285]

When ever we put our vans in it is usually under "Other", and when we put the category "other" we always seem to win, I guess they have "other" at the shows for cars other than sedans, utes, custom, and original (classic)

[Vombil]

i think that anything with 4 doors is definitely not a car that is 'strong' in appearance. Id say an HQ Sandman ute with 308 and 4 speed is more of a 'muscle' car that a family cruiser 4 door monaro. Any car that dings the muscle bell for me has to have 2 doors only.

Sandman for me is a classic. Probably not as per the judges criteria, but loosely speaking

[HK1837]

A Sandman is not a muscle car! By the broad US definitions i've seen I think the only Aussie car that is a muscle car in that sense is the HK GTS327, but that is a bit silly as there are other Aussie 2 doors that went a lot harder like a HT-HG GTS350 manual, XA RPO83 and E38/E49 Charger.

I think HQ-HJ (at least) could go wherever an SL/R, GTS etc goes - some sort of sports variant class. These all share some common traits like 6cyl up to V8 engines, floor shift 4spd or auto etc. I wouldn't include premium performance vehicles like L34, A9X, HK-HQ 1837 and HQ XW8 in this class but the rest sort of belong.

Or maybe you would create a "Sports Utility or Commercial" category, which would allow for inclusion of Sundowner, Drifter, Maloo, VSIII SS etc. And also cars like SS El Camino etc.

Good question Blocker!

[SandmanMuscle]

Well they are a classic. And you would have to say Aussie muscle to. But on a US stage they would probly be down classed below muscle. Or be put in a sub category like the mustang, as a pony car

[wbute]

Nah not muscle cars. They share some muscle car heritage though. Sports utility/commercial vehicle would be a suitable name for a category I reckon.

[mauser]

haha I have always stood in the belief they are in the same class of an SL/R or non-350 GTS Monaro. I like the "Sports Class" or "Sports Commercial".

Other than the SS El Camino Byron mentioned, what other vehicles fit in this class world-wide. I'd like to think the US Style full size 4WD/Truck off-road vehicles are excluded.

quote from another source ...
"In the past, Ford and GM had utes, but not any more. Chevrolet's was the El Camino and the GMC clone was the Caballero. These were built from 1959 for Chev and 1969 for GMC until 1988. The Ford ute was the Ranchero and was built from 1957 until 1979. From '57-'59 the Ranchero was built on the full size Fairlane (tank Fairlane); '60-'66 on the Falcon platform and from '67-79 on the mid size Fairlane/Torino platform."


Mauser

[Taily]

It is a good question, one that will bring a lot of different opinions to light.

I don't know, I would have thought (home grown) muscle would suit the GT/GTHO ford mob (maybe the 4V XA-C coupes?) and the 327 (and up) chev powered and A9X/L34 Holdens and the E38 and E49 Vals?

Not too sure what defines a classic either. A classic to me is something from the 60's or earlier (55-67 chevs, 58-62 Caddys, 32-4 ford Tudors and 60's Mustangs and early Cusso's etc etc as far as imports and I suppose the 48/215 & FJ and the XM-P woodies etc when looking at home grown), however a classic to someone 20 years younger is going to be something else entirely. How do you find a medium ground when it becomes very wide ranging due to age?

Some people would suggest that the 70's "statement" cars should probably have their own catergory as (for the most part) they were fairly standard units with tart-up bits and decals on them without any great amount of go-faster mechanical assets. Cars like the maroon LE coupes, Goss coupes, Cobras, SLR5000s, Pacers etc etc. I would think the Sandman would fall into that category or as Byron mentioned above, some type of "Sport Commercial" category.

"Street" I would think is more open to your garden variety car aimed at the "mum and dad" market when new, with some small adjustments like 600hp nitrous glugging injected big blocks and tubbed and 4-linked 9 inch rear ends. Hence the variations such as pro-street, super street etc, which also highlights the cross-over into drag racing classes. I feel for the poor blokes and blokettes building something from the heart to specifically enter into shows these days as there is always going to be someone who thinks their ride should be entered in another class.

Question for ya Vombs.... With your "two doors only" muscle analogy, where would you put a Phase 2 or 3 GTHO? Hard one to answer if you look at it the way the Yanks do (2 doors, big revving cubic inches and manual tranny). The question itself is as hard to pick as a broken nose nowadays. To me it is a muscle car, but that doesn't always fit with what everyone else thinks.

Regards,

Dave.

[buickzz]

Muscle cars, as the yanks seem to define them, are smaller bodied cars with the engine out of a larger bodied car. The Pontiac GTO appears to be the first car associated with the tag. This is probably true for the modern era of cars, the reality is GM have been doing it since 1936 when the put the large straight 8 of that era into the smaller bodied version of the Buick. It is the formulae of most hot rods also.

On this basis what Australian car would qualify for such a tag - I can think of the Torana (full sized car motor in a smaller body) and the Ford guys might even suggest the 250 engined Cortina (heaven forbid - although they were pretty quick).

This should get some response I expect . . .

[mauser]

On this basis what Australian car would qualify for such a tag - I can think of the Torana (full sized car motor in a smaller body) and the Ford guys might even suggest the 250 engined Cortina (heaven forbid - although they were pretty quick).

... and the mighty Centura. :-)

Mauser