hx sandman or not ??

[ehbits]

Hi, I have a HX van id tag reads

8WM70
GVW 1950
Seating capacity 2
Trim code is 19V

Have been told because of the 19V trim its not a sandman but it all the sandman stuff, GTS dash, GTS wheels, GTS steering wheel, full head lining, is mandarin red with the sandman stripes, 253 and 4 speed manual, paint looks all original. I rang Holden and a guy right into sandman’s told me it was a sandman but had other ppl since tell me its not and as it looks all original Just after help to no for sure if it is a sandman or not

[HK1837]

It sounds like one but 19V is a killer. How early HX is it?

[ehbits]

its a 76 is all i no, is there a way to tell the month build? allso did no hx sandmans come with the 19v trim as i understand it black vinyl and i have seen some hj sandmans with the 19v trim. thanks

[HK1837]

ADR plate will tell you the month, but the chassis number will tell you how early it is. Best bet is send me the ID details and i'll see what I can work out.
HJ Holden Sandman got black (19V) but HJ Kingswood Sandman got Slate black (18V). HX Holden Sandman spec was raised to Kingswood level so they got 18V. The only known HX Sandman with 19V is the red ute on the HX Sandman brochure. The reason it got 19V is because it was built during HJ Production prior to the decision to drop the base trim (ie Holden) Sandman for HX, and to build them all as Kingswood spec. They still used a Holden body and modded it to Kingswood spec as it was claimed to be too hard to not fit the side mouldings. If your Sandman is a really early one then it is possible to have 19V but it'd have to be from memory a 4/76 build which is when the 20 or so pilot HX's (all types eg sedan, wagon etc) were built. If it is a regular production HX (like 6/76 on) with 19V then either it isn't a Sandman or a mistake. Very unusual to see an error on a trim code though but it could still happen.

[ehbits]

ok i found the info
hx8W M 70
203226-a
1890-19V
568-15953
eng L32 trans M20 axe GU4


BUILD DATE 8/76
AHX 07580S
GVW 1950
SEATING CAP 2
VIN 8M70RFH899644X

I CANT READ CHASSIS NUMBER SOME ONE HAS WELDED UP A CRACK IN CHASSIS ANS 1/2 WELDED OVER IT

[HK1837]

Bit of a tough one. Plates all align OK. It could be an XX7 with a mistake, or it could be someone has got hold of a HX Holden van that happens to also be a bucket seat XU4 and had option B47 applied (B30 carpet + BB7 headlining), then made a replica Sandman out of it. Either one is possible, but as a guess i'd guess it was more likely to be a Sandman. Problem is it isn't a good one to spend lots of money on as you'll have the same problem as those with Acacia Ridge Sandmans with no package code on the BODY plate - they are hard to sell or convince people what they are.
It is also one of those odd HX L32 M20 commercials with a GU4 (3.08) diff code. Most were 3.55 as with the pollution HX engine the 253 4spd was deemed as a slug and they put the 3.55 in to make them feel "fast".

[ehbits]

ok thanks, i also have a hj xx7 sandman 253 4 speed 355 diff i take it that it is prob not worth a great deal either ?

[HK1837]

Any Sandman is worth having, but condition and all original numbers is the key. A HJ V8 Sandman is a good thing, if it is in good condition (not super rusty) and the chassis rails match the ADR tag then they can be worth pretty decent $. Even better if most of the original Sandman stuff is still there and the original engine too. The only hassle with them is some people look at them with blinkers on, sometimes buy a car for too much and either give up when they realise what it is going to cost or over-capitalise and end up spending 50% more than what the finished product is actually worth. Or make the mistake of investing too much in a car that no longer has its original chassis rails. My personal take on it is you really shouldn't consider a nuts and bolts close to concours resto on anything short of at least a 308 manual as the return probably isn't there (not just $ but your countless hours). Nothing wrong with building up a nice van or ute out of a 6cyl or 253 Sandman but not spending the bulk $ required for total originality using lots of NOS stuff. Even stopping at 80-90% original (like making it look stock body and trim wise but underneath all rebuilt using what is available repro or secondhand but not correct for the car) can save you huge amounts on a resto.
Having said all that if you want to build up a nice modified ute or van and you can start with an original Sandman go for it, it'll have a higher intrinsic value than a 173 column shift drum brake car will! And if the car is run down and missing lots of stuff (making it relatively cheap to begin with) why not do it?
Also unusual to find a HJ 253 M20 with a 3.55 diff, normally they are 3.08.

[Dick61]

You have contradicted yourself Byron, it is an 8/76 build which puts it out of the 4/76 "early build" that you mention, it also has 19V trim which makes it not a Sandman, with the chassis number welded over I would be suspicious about the vehicles history as well.
Attachment 7564Attachment 7565Attachment 7566


These are the tags of the HX Kingswood that I started another thread about, I bought it off e-bay, when I saw the tags on the ad I thought it might have been a Sandman but its a Kingswood. That other van has been optioned up by the original purchaser, probably didn't like the gaudy new stripes but wanted all the other Sandman features, just as my ute has the de-rated load capacity as it was probably ordered with GTS rims and passenger tyres.

[HK1837]

You have contradicted yourself Byron, it is an 8/76 build which puts it out of the 4/76 "early build" that you mention, it also has 19V trim which makes it not a Sandman, with the chassis number welded over I would be suspicious about the vehicles history as well.

I didn't, not intentionally anyway. What I meant was i'd expect it to have 19V trim if it was an early build, but if it was originally a Sandman the 19V is a mistake. OR, someone has got hold of a HX Holden XU4 van with factory fitted B47 package and made a Sandman mockup out of it. My assertion is that in my experience it is a lot more likely to be a Sandman with a mistake than the XU4 possibility as the chances of it being an XU4 B47 and then being mocked up is like an 1000/1 shot. Could happen but far less likely than the Sandman with a mistake. Having said that, trim mistakes are also very rare. What makes it moderately more possible on some vans is Dandenong and Elizabeth HX van bodies were painted and hard trimmed and given the BODY plate at Elizabeth but assembled at Dandenong and Elizabeth, so there is maybe more scope for stuff-up.
Assuming all is OK with the tags (ie not played with) this is the first of its kind that I can remember ever coming across. B47 outside of Sandman in HJ-HZ or Kingswood in HX-HZ (both of where B47 is part of the package) is virtually non existant, only ever seen two. Then combine it with console shift, buckets, XU4 and then have it mocked up as a Sandman....That Kingswood ute is a good example, it is rare in itself is XU4, XS6, M20, but Kingswood rules it out in this case. However let's assume it was a Holden van instead. On top of the rare combination it then has to be optioned with B47.

Note that on the Kingswood XU4 ute in the ID plates, the GVW has nothing to do with N66 rims, they are load rated to well in excess of a fully laden normal ute or van. It wouldn't have been ordered as such with passenger tyres. It would have been ordered as an XU4, which meant it was given passenger tyres so the carrying capacity is reduced. Sounds the same thing but it is a subtle difference, ie passenger tyres was the medium used to achieve the lower load capacity not the other way around.

In either case as I said not one worth spending $ on as it will always have a question mark over it.