Cool Cheers 4 that guys ! Still doesn't solve my predicament :( Lucky 4 me the van I went out and looked at today had the guards (all though not in the best condition) inside it , They where weld in's but it wasn't a sandman any way so would make do , I just have decide if I want 2 buy it or not now ! Could be scrubbed up 2 be all right with a bit of TLC , but would still never be a sandman :(