QLD P-Plate Driving Laws

[79Kingswood]

This topic has probably been raised before, but i was thinking today about the limits of queensland's high performance vehicle legislation that applies on p-plates.

LINK TO HIGH PERFORMANCE LEGISLATION
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Licensing/...-vehicles.aspx

1) restrictions based on number of cylinders.

At first glance it may seem reasonable to restrict vehicles based on engine cylinders.
With the advent of modern technologies like valve timing control, fuel injection etc, it is possible for vehicles to have large amounts of power, with minimal displacement.

For example; A modern commodore six cylinder has in excess of 200kw; significantly higher than that of an old holden 253 for example; and yet, the commodore is legal to drive.

Although some may argue that modern engines are more economical, I believe that the main concern of community in regard to p-plate drivers is safety.

To this end some may argue that modern vehicles equipped with ABS TCS and other safety measures outweighs the negative connotations of a higher power output.

In my opinion, something like an old hx one tonner with a 253 would be more than adequately safe, with less power output, a full chassis and a body made of REAL STEEL. (As well as being cheaper and better looking than most modern cars).

In my personal opinion, i think that laws should be reviewed and possibly amended so that instead of restricting cars on a basis of cylinders, they would be restricted on a reasonably determined power/weight ratio.

This would prevent young drivers from driving vehicles with high power outputs, whilst still allowing them own a V8, which in my opinion would be great, as the availability of the v8 option would encourage youngsters to participate in the classic car community; learning how to actually work on a vehicle (as opposed to plugging it into a diagnostic machine at the dealer) and embracing automotive history and enjoying vehicles that generally look more awesome than bland modern cars.

I would love to hear the forums thoughts on this topic.

[Innuendo]

While I agree it can seem tough on the young, the laws keep getting put into place to "try" and save you from yourself.
These laws have been in NSW for many years now. Yet the young fellas still end up in mass fatalities street racing each other or just simply running out of talent and hit a tree or pole etc.
The younger generation drive around here flat out, failing to to care and thinking they are invincible (just like I did at the same age!)
You may feel the older cars are made out of "real steel" but the facts are the newer builds are far safer and stronger in collisions. AMCAT ratings prove this to a point. On top of that the rust in the seams of older cars doesn't always show itself until it is split open in a collision. I really do sympathise with you about the ricer with 200kw vs an old V8 with 125kw. Lets face Mum's shopping trolley will blow the doors off most 253 V8's of yesteryear. But the government who puts these laws into place don't look at cars older then 15 years as the numbers are small and never part of the data collection.

All I can say is serve your time driving something deemed safe, cheap and reliable and spend your time and cash building the beast you really want to drive and having ready to roll when your off your "P's"

Your time will come

[wbute]

They could just use a hot 202 instead?
I agree on the power output though. Are they aloud to drive V8 diesel land cruisers?

[HK1837]

They way around it is to build yourself a HQ-WB tonner with a VP-VR V6 and 4L60. More power, more torque than a 253 and more economical. If you do the conversion correctly it is an easy swap to an EFI 5litre later, virtually plug and play except for the engine mounts and exhaust.

[wbute]

I bet you can go and buy a Husaberg FE 500 and ride it around town on motard wheels though? They are a off the floor fully race ready dirt bike.

[jennie285]

They could just use a hot 202 instead?
I agree on the power output though. Are they aloud to drive V8 diesel land cruisers?

Yes they can drive a diesel v8 wagon cruiser for sure, but unsure about the ute version though.
When our son got his ps I droves xr8 and Rodney drove a cross 8 I put in a letter explaining this but it fell on deaf ears and we bought a fiesta for them to drive

[SANM4N]

mm the only thing is and im not sure about qld but here in vic, you cant have anything thats not standard for instance when i was on my p's (2008) you are not allowed to modify an engine from its original specs so the 6cyl in the vehicle has to remain standard cant change the head manifolds carbie etc nothing that enhances the performance of the vehicle you cant have a turbo or supercharger no injected engines etc, infact the panelvan i am doing up now was my first car i was pulled over driving it, not doing anything wrong but because of the noise it made they pulled me over, and for driving with a 308 i lost 3 of my 5 demerit points and $326 fine i wasn't allowed to move the vehicle from the carpark i had pulled over into, and some people say wellcops dont know what they're looking at and they take the risk (i was one of them) it only takes one cop to get you and thats it my $15000 panelvan had to sit and wait until now

[SANM4N]

and the worst part i rang vic roads (rta) and asked if i could put the 308 in the vehicle they said yes due to the weight of the van, power to weight, my insurance company said they would insure me, it turns out in 2007 power to weight went out the window even if the 308 complied to power to weight it didnt matter, it doesnt matter who tells you what, who says you can drive it, at the end of the day its just not allowed and ignorance is not an excuse, which i think is a shame my panelvan was 132kw at the wheels i had mate with 6 cyl vx commodores and theres no way i could go as fast as them or have the torque for burnouts etc and i respected my car nearly every week in year 12 someone would come to school with a story of themselves or a mate rolling there or there parents car

[79Kingswood]

Yeah. Unfortunately you cant really trust the word of an insurance agent or employee at the transport depot. At the end of the day, it all depends on the nature of the cop. I think its unfortunate that blokes that take care of thier pride and joy get ripped off, but leaving bogans free to thrash about in newer cars

In qld, you cant drive anything with a "modified" engine (ie anything that requires blue plate certification). this technically means;

no aftermarket mods (eg; mild cams, head work, headers)
no motor other than factory
and unfortunately for me I cant put a blue 202 into an HZ because it "was only available with a red motor"
the department of transport would listen when i said, they're both 3.3L holden motors, ones out of a WB, the other is out of an HQ-HZ, but apparently I can't get away with it.

So in my unfortunate circumstance as a p-plater in QLD; I cant:
1) Put a 253 in my ute
2) put a 202 Blue in my ute
3) put a worked 202 red in my ute
4) do a Commy V6 3.8 Swap

my only option is a stock as a rock red 202

The stupidest part of the whole system is that the legislation contradicts itself

under the certification for a replacement engine (ie original motor died) the engine must be the same as it would've been originally (ie in my case 202 red) and MUST also be complied/ enable to run unleaded.

To my understanding, to convert a 202 red to unleaded requires hardened valve seats and other mild mods. But to this end, does this not count as a "modified engine" due to the head mods.

ERGO if i was to believe this contradiction, I wouldn't be allowed to drive the ute unless i found the original motor (serial number).

I cant for the life of me find any employee of queensland transport that can clarify this or give me any guidance (i have been to the depot, email the govt dept, spent hours on the phone, talked to mechanics and cops and yet no one gives me the same answer.)

[HK1837]

Go and speak to your local (State) member and ask them to enquire for you, after explaining the run around you have ben getting. They'll find someone for you to talk to hopefully.