Holden snubs Canberra

[Valencia]

Listen to the doctor he knows his shit

[HK1837]

I have been looking in the last few weeks at replacing my SR5 Hilux at end of finance mid next year. Nothing out there is better value than a Falcon ute at the moment. Under $32k driveaway for an XR6 ute. Anything else that comes close is a low spec piece of junk 4cyl diesel made in Thailand. Even at runout for a 2012 plate Nissan want $60k for an ST-X 550, plus they won't sell the good V6 engine in a single cab. Toyota is the same, you can't get the top spec V6 engine in a single cab.

I'll hang out until the XR8 is re-released late next year I think, but if they'll build me an XR6 turbo auto with 3/4 tonne or 1tonne suspension (so I can tow with it) for the right money I might be tempted early-mid next year. Otherwise i'll hang out for the XR8 or even consider an XR6 with LPI engine.

[Taily]

Byron, Ford have already made it known that they will not revisit the V8 in the next ute, which basically means that if you want a V8 ute you might need to see if you can find an FPV GS version of it. From my understanding there isn't much between the GVMs of either the current (run-out) GS ute and the Commodore V8 ute - around 100kg if I have my facts right but I do share your reasoning for wanting a live rear axle and cart springs. I am actually holding out on replacing our old wagon with a manual supercharged XR8 sedan when they are released during 2014 (have already replaced the Golf with an FG XR6T, which SWMBO instructed me I was to give to her.... hmmm) which will, if I can wrangle the lease mob to run with it, be visiting KPM for a little grunt output massage.

Dave, I do hope that wherever the news about Holden came from it turns out to be false but I get the feeling that because they have made no secret of the last Commodore already being in production then I need to look long and hard at what I replace the wagon with. The current GM V8 will certainly have more go-faster bits available for it in the future but I do really want to start with something force inducted to begin with which is why I am leaning toward a Blue oval to drag the trailer queen around when it gets back on the road....

I work in an industry (aviation) that the media almost has no idea of how to report even minor incidents, often blowing them out of all proportion. I wouldn't be surprised, though I am quickly learning, that even the ABC now has real political leaning... This story they have run does seem at the outset to be hype in (as far as I know) that nobody from Holden has made an official comment on it.

My concern is for the supplementary industries that Australian manufacturing supports by just being there. I couldn't say for sure just which government started the rot but there has been the catch-cry of we need to be competitive in "a global economy" from successive governments of both persuasions for many years now. That mantra is coming home to roost now as it has shown that removal of tariffs and other protective measures (I'm stopping well short of saying protectionism outright) hasn't helped our local vehicle manufacturers - who, due to our standard of living etc could never hope to be competitive aginst importers with a much lower cost base. Is it any wonder that governments are looking at ways of stopping everyday consumers from accessing the much championed "global economy" from home in their own time and buying items (ie; wanting to tax people buying <$1K items) in from overseas?

To me it isn't rocket science that previous governments policies to do with our vehicle manufacturing just haven't worked.

It seems the successive governments want it both ways. There is pain in the pipeline I feel...

[HK1837]

I saw a dealer confidential letter a few weeks ago stating FPV will be made defunct in 2014 and the XR8 will be re-released as a NA engine, not one with a pump on it. Late 2014 it stated.

Problem with the XR6 and XR6 turbo is the GCM is 4395kg and 4425kg respectively. Using the XR6 turbo with 2300kg tow package on it as an example:

XR6 turbo auto kerb mass is 1815kg
Subtract 1815kg (kerb mas) and 2300kg (trailer atm) from 4425kg = 310kg.

Then subtract towball weight from the 310kg, towball weight will be around 200kg min with a 2300kg trailer wheel load:

= 110kg.

I weigh more than 110kg, so I can't drive the car.

3/4 tonne suspension increases the GCM by about 200kg which would do it for me.
1 tonne suspension increases the GCM by just under 500kg.

So ideally i'd want the XR6 turbo with at least 3/4 tonne suspension, add the XR pack and the 19" wheels & tyres would still be within load limit. But Ford have so far said no. Next option is to buy the XR6 cab chassis with LPi engine which comes with 1-tonne suspension, BUT they won't do it with an XR pack (leather trim, sat-nav, dual zone climate air, reverse camera etc), they can keep the 19" wheels from the XR pack and leave the load rated 16" ones on it.

[RodneyHZ253]

I saw a dealer confidential letter a few weeks ago stating FPV will be made defunct in 2014 and the XR8 will be re-released as a NA engine, not one with a pump on it. Late 2014 it stated.

Problem with the XR6 and XR6 turbo is the GCM is 4395kg and 4425kg respectively. Using the XR6 turbo with 2300kg tow package on it as an example:

XR6 turbo auto kerb mass is 1815kg
Subtract 1815kg (kerb mas) and 2300kg (trailer atm) from 4425kg = 310kg.

Then subtract towball weight from the 310kg, towball weight will be around 200kg min with a 2300kg trailer wheel load:

= 110kg.

I weigh more than 110kg, so I can't drive the car.

3/4 tonne suspension increases the GCM by about 200kg which would do it for me.
1 tonne suspension increases the GCM by just under 500kg.

So ideally i'd want the XR6 turbo with at least 3/4 tonne suspension, add the XR pack and the 19" wheels & tyres would still be within load limit. But Ford have so far said no. Next option is to buy the XR6 cab chassis with LPi engine which comes with 1-tonne suspension, BUT they won't do it with an XR pack (leather trim, sat-nav, dual zone climate air, reverse camera etc), they can keep the 19" wheels from the XR pack and leave the load rated 16" ones on it.

Ok let's try it this way for my ute to bring shorns van home from Canberra
Xr6 kerb mass 1815 kgs
2people 220 kgs
Tow ball mass 100kgs
So laden vehicle mass is 2135
Trailer mass 620 kgs
Van kerb mass around 1550 kg
So trailer total mass is 2170kgs less the 100 kgs that is Loaded on the ute equals 2070
So GCM is 2135 plus 2070 equals 4205 kgs giving us 195kgs up or sleeve

So in the above example behind my ute I can carry 1745 kgs on my trailer behind my ute with two people an no luggage
Trailer is ele brakes and has gvm of 2500kgs

Hope this all marks sense

[Blocker]

Manufacturing costs are high in our country, but also frustrating is many of the parts sourced by Holden and Ford are not made locally.
Why support the local industry when they do not support local suppliers?

[Dr Terry]

Manufacturing costs are high in our country, but also frustrating is many of the parts sourced by Holden and Ford are not made locally.
Why support the local industry when they do not support local suppliers?

There is a very easy to answer that one Blocker.

For example. When GM-H were negotiating to manufacturer windscreens for the VE way back in 2004 or so, it went like this.

They had a new spec to adhere to for the new design, it involved the thickness & layers of the new glass & 'Aussie' glass supplier at the time (been here forever) said no, we can't afford to re-tool for that, go & see our 'other' factory in Malaysia. So the union at the Aust glass manufacturer heard the rumour & protested to GM-H. What can GM-H say in their defense ? They did try !!

This decline in Aussie manufacturing has being going on for decades.

Dr Terry

[Alien DNA]

Fair point.

Its all kinda depressing thinking about another aussie icon going down the sh!t shoot. If/when Holden goes, Toyota will also follow suit and close down as well.

GM and Ford want a 'world car'....looks like they're going to get it. :(

[Taily]

The announcement as per media release:

"Ford’s iconic Falcon XR8 sedan will return to the Falcon line-up in late 2014.

The return of the XR8 is timed to coincide with the introduction of the 2014 Falcon and Territory update. The XR8 will be available through Ford’s full network of dealers Australia-wide, making the renowned Miami performance engine more accessible for V8 lovers.

“We have received a lot of interest and continued requests from Falcon fans to bring back the XR8,” said Ford Australia Vice President of Marketing, Sales and Service Graeme Whickman.

“Re-introducing the XR8 sedan, packaged in our updated Falcon, will make our renowned locally-engineered and manufactured V8 engine available to a broader group of people.”

As the Falcon XR8 returns to the Ford range, the Ford Performance Vehicles (FPV) range will retire.

Ford has planned a series of actions during 2014 to ensure the final FPV models celebrate the brand’s iconic status. Further details will be provided at a later date.

“FPV has been very successful for the last 12 years and our relationship with Tickford for many years before that,” said Whickman.

“We appreciate all of the great team members, dealers, customers and fans who have supported FPV through its history. We look forward to sharing further details of the final FPV models and the new XR8 over the coming months.”

My bold.

My understanding they are referring to the s/c version of the coyote, ie; Maimi....?

[HK1837]

Might be. That is different to what I saw at the dealership. I'll go back and look and see if they have changed it. It wasn't a media release, but a confidential dealer letter. If it is a supercharged V8 I don't want it. I just wanted a NA V8. I'd buy an Lpi or turbo 6 instead.