HQ Sandy Christman present

[Wally]

Ok, so without starting the great debate (again) as I know there has been a few on here, is a re-shell transferring all parts that make it a sandman including chassis and tags mount, strips etc with a Dandenong body making it any less a sandman. What percentage of transferable metal has to go with it before you consider it legit? Should this be done or do we let these cars just keep getting toasted and return back to the soil? There must be hundreds of restored cars that only have a poofteenth of the original metal in them but that does not stop people spending thousands and being any less desirable. What are your thoughts?

This might help - I am a carpenter and so was my dad and I have in my possession a 650 year old hammer that has handed down through the family for all those years as a family heirloom. Here's the thing - it has had 45 new heads and 238 new handles but is 650 years old . We have really kept it in good condition!!! You were saying?

[HK1837]

Ok, so without starting the great debate (again) as I know there has been a few on here, is a re-shell transferring all parts that make it a sandman including chassis and tags mount, strips etc with a Dandenong body making it any less a sandman. What percentage of transferable metal has to go with it before you consider it legit? Should this be done or do we let these cars just keep getting toasted and return back to the soil? There must be hundreds of restored cars that only have a poofteenth of the original metal in them but that does not stop people spending thousands and being any less desirable. What are your thoughts?

I don't have a drama with it if it is done right. Just be honest about it if you ever go to sell it, and don't do an anal resto, just do the best you can for the budget that suits you (ie don't overcapitalise). A car like that is a pefect candidate for a Chev or a 308 or an EFI 5litre if the original 253 is gone.

[Absinth]

In my opinion.... There is nothing wrong with using a donor body shell to repair a rusted out car. The only thing that makes it a no no these days is re-birthing.... Re-birthing is using the ID from a badly damaged vehicle on a stolen vehicle... This is totally different to re-shelling a vehicle legitimately.

up until the late 80's or so a complete body shell could be bought from car manufacturers as a replacement part. Most panel shops that repaired a damaged car using a new body shell would swap the tags from the wreck to save the owner the hassle of having to go to the rego dept. and change the details. Technically this was an illegal practice but was commonly done.

it is quite possible you could by a car that had a body swap done to it 30 years ago using a new replacement body shell.

[Absinth]

This might help - I am a carpenter and so was my dad and I have in my possession a 650 year old hammer that has handed down through the family for all those years as a family heirloom. Here's the thing - it has had 45 new heads and 238 new handles but is 650 years old . We have really kept it in good condition!!! You were saying?

This is a very poor example for an argument against..... In this case a car would have to have had a body and engine swap... And then later had a chassis swap..... In which case it is no longer an original Sandman.....

the ID of a car is in the tags and chassis.

i sold my HX Monaro before restoring it as the front chassis rail with the chassis number had been replaced with a HQ one after an accident. I considered it to have lost it's identity and not worth the money to restore it as it would never be accepted as an original Monaro. Other have a different opinion on this also.

[HK1837]

Only hassle nowadays is Sean if you advertise it for sale as something like a "genuine original HQ Sandman" or other such cliché'd words there are legal precedents that can come back to bite you. Plus technically it is considered an illegal act to remove and/or re-affix the ADR tag, which if you get hassled in a Civil case for the false advertising you are also likely to be persued for the Criminal act of tag swapping.

So whilst I agree it is OK to use another body, best bet is to use the right body ie right series, right assembly plant (and eg don't use an early 1974 HQ van body for a late 1974 HQ), and when you go to sell it just for example advertise as a HQ ute or van, or if you want say the shell was changed but the right one was used. This way there is no false advertising claim. Anyone selling a car they don't 100% know the history of should probably do the same/similar.

[Wally]

Your right , not a good argument. Sorry. I'll try and be more serious.

[Absinth]

If a body swap is done legitimately for restoration purposes then the owner should have nothing to hide if and when they decide to sell and full disclosure to any potential purchasers would be given.

if I get around to restoring my HX I will do it legally..... I will use the good cowl section off my old body (with plates attached) to restore the new body I'll be putting on the chassis. Hopefully I can get a Adelaide built HX shell the same as original..... If I ever decide to sell I will disclose all and give the new owner a record of the resto.

personally, even if I decided to sell the HJ I would never advertise it as a "genuine original Sandman" as it isn't. Restored HJ Sandman should cover it and avoid potential legal action.

[Valencia]

Imho im not a fan of people that do body swaps i dont care how good or how accurate its done its still wrong
just my feelings towards this topic

[GNW1974]

The body swap would to me preferable to the fact if you cut out all the rusted bits of a wreck, welded in replacement panels made from todays metal, probably from overseas, that are often not a perfect replica and call the car original - either way there has been a lot of changes. At least the body was made in a Holden factory by Holden employee's.
The same goes for mechanicals, if the original is U/S or already gone then a replacement from the same era has to do. It is, as others are saying, only an issue when you go to sell it. There is always then going to be price variation from concourse completely original to replica - the market will decide where your project sits.

[HK1837]

If a body swap is done legitimately for restoration purposes then the owner should have nothing to hide if and when they decide to sell and full disclosure to any potential purchasers would be given.

if I get around to restoring my HX I will do it legally..... I will use the good cowl section off my old body (with plates attached) to restore the new body I'll be putting on the chassis. Hopefully I can get a Adelaide built HX shell the same as original..... If I ever decide to sell I will disclose all and give the new owner a record of the resto.

personally, even if I decided to sell the HJ I would never advertise it as a "genuine original Sandman" as it isn't. Restored HJ Sandman should cover it and avoid potential legal action.

100% agree. The key point is full disclosure, then there is no comeback on you.