Keep Holden

[SLR_dave]

It seems so wrong to me that Australia is about to lose all of it's automotive manufacturing ability, I realise it was very much on the cards, and so I spose maybe thats why theres no comment I can see on this forum on Toyotas announcement today.

I just dont understand why Australians are prepared to shrug their shoulders, seemingly with no problems as our manufacturing base and 60 years of automotive manufacture falls apart, the VF commodore and its varients is so close to being about, or is, the best sedan you could buy for the price in the world... and its all got to go so we can have free trade (with countries that underpay their workers and make shortlifespan heavy environmental cost products) just to get back to a budget surplus (a surplus we have lived without since the early 50s)???

Now that Toyotas made the announcement I dont suppose this facebook page I made will be able to attract the interest I had hoped. I should have launched it properly back in December, and got Jay Wetherall etc on board. This post, right here, is the first attempt at such a launch. If you are on facebook, you can still 'friend' it if you like.

https://www.facebook.com/?sk=welcome#!/keep.holden [Note: I have now closed that page as Facebook is the wrong social media forum for that purpose, I am considering a seperate website for this at some stage and I'll make a note on this thread if that happens]

[davegmh]

If only Australia had a Royal Commission into Unions ten years earlier ? What could have been.

[wbute]

If Holden was Australian owned it would have moved production to China like every other Australian company.

[hainzy]

Its a real pity.
Libs will blame the unions but what worker wouldnt want higher wages and better conditions...?
Labour will blame the Libs for not stepping up with a bail out, but taxpayers dont want that. Even though taxpayers want australian cars. Libs dont seem to care about manufacturing in australia. More should have been done by both parties.

Its been on the cards for years and its a real pity. We have many aussies working overseas in car design due to the skills they developed here. We have many highly skilled people here in automotive design, component manufacturing, engineering etc. Future generations wont have an automotive skill to aspire to, beyond mechanic, painter or panel beater.

Now we're staring down the barrel of 50,000+ unemployed, while we struggle to afford to buy an imported chev rebadged as a holden. Its a bit shit.

Glad i got my old holdens when I did. I hope in another decade or 2 that people will still appreciate them.

[chrisp]

Sorry Hainsy, but I have to disagree with the "Even though taxpayers want australian cars".
If we did, we would be buying them. The fact is we are not.
How many of the 5 Australian built cars (Camry, Territory, Falcon, Commodore and Cruze) are in the top 10 sellers.
There are lots of factors, but I'll just look at the one sentence I've repeted from your post.

We complain about the loss of an icon (and an industry) yet refuse to do the one thing we need to do.
If we wanted Australian cars (that in itself is a loose term) we would stop buying cars from oversees (particularly Thailand and South Africa) and actually buy one of the "Australian" 5.
The governments also need to only buy local.
Having said that by selling off alot of their assets they no longer has the clout to place the orders. And even the cops dont drive Austalian.
As a start the Australian government should provide a blanket order for 100,000 locally made cars over the three manufactures.
No hand outs, just support the industry.

last question for the mysandman people, When was the last time you purchased a new or near new "australian car"?

[Bigtonkatoy]

If ford is an australian car then I brought a bf a couple years ago and about to buy the new fg g6e

[HK1837]

Sorry Hainsy, but I have to disagree with the "Even though taxpayers want australian cars".
If we did, we would be buying them. The fact is we are not.
How many of the 5 Australian built cars (Camry, Territory, Falcon, Commodore and Cruze) are in the top 10 sellers.
There are lots of factors, but I'll just look at the one sentence I've repeted from your post.

We complain about the loss of an icon (and an industry) yet refuse to do the one thing we need to do.
If we wanted Australian cars (that in itself is a loose term) we would stop buying cars from oversees (particularly Thailand and South Africa) and actually buy one of the "Australian" 5.
The governments also need to only buy local.
Having said that by selling off alot of their assets they no longer has the clout to place the orders. And even the cops dont drive Austalian.
As a start the Australian government should provide a blanket order for 100,000 locally made cars over the three manufactures.
No hand outs, just support the industry.

last question for the mysandman people, When was the last time you purchased a new or near new "australian car"?

I want an Australian car but I haven't bought one new since my VY SS ute, or near new since my V2 CV8 in 2004. The reason I won't buy one is they will not build what I want. Simple.
So I bought my 2011 SR5 V6 auto Hilux 4x4 new, and I bought the Mrs a Lexus RX350 sports luxury demonstrator.

[Dr Terry]

How many of the 5 Australian built cars (Camry, Territory, Falcon, Commodore and Cruze) are in the top 10 sellers.

3 of them, Camry, Commodore & Cruze.

The Commodore is usually the best seller of the 3, although for several months last year, Cruze outsold Commodore. Also it's all about the way they count them. If you count Commodores as just Commodores (i.e. sedan, wagon etc.) then they're usually at no. 3 or 4. If you throw in utes & Caprices & add HSVs (which are all Commodores or derivatives) then it would most likely still be our no. 1 seller. So it's a little unfair to say that Holden isn't making cars that we want.

It is interesting to look at what's happened to the car market over the last decade or 2. We now sell over a million vehicles every year, so lack of total sales is not a problem. What is a problem is that the market is so fragmented. Even the top selling car only manages 3,500 sales per month. In the 70s, 80s & 90s the top sellers were doing 8,000 - 9,000 per month. Back in the good old days (1960s) GM-H were selling over 12,500 cars per month!!, all built on one platform. Back then you had the top 5 or 6 cars selling in good numbers & then daylight & everyone else were selling miniscule numbers. These days even no. 15 is a reasonable seller.

I like how people generally want someone or something to blame for the auto industry's demise.

Was it the Government's fault, this one or the last 3 ? Was it the $A ? Was it the GFC ? Was it the unions ? Was the high overall cost of manufacture in Aust. ? Was it bad corporate management ? Was it our fragmented car market ?

Well I reckon it was a combination of all of the above, plus this one.

If you still looking for somebody to blame, have a close look at what is currently parked in your driveway.

I'm the proud owner of over 15 cars (family, historic & my company cars included) & they are all Australian made & almost all Holdens. What about yours ?

Dr Terry

[thatotherguy]

we have a VE Calais,VZ SV6 and a VS acclaim and are considering a VF ute or sportswagon. the only non Holden in our drive way is a 1939 ford hot rod.We often drive past the Holden factory in Elizabeth and look in the employees carpark and play spot the Holden,When i worked for Bridgestone i bought Bridgestone Tyres and believe if you work for a company you should support them. Maybe their cars are too good? in 1972 you bought a HQ and in 5-10 years the old 202 was clapped out and the body was starting to rust and the bench seat was sagging so you went and bought a new model, We bought our VS new in 1996 and it has done over 300000ks and apart from usual wear and tear items the only thing i have replaced is the radiator.

[Dago]

Reality is that out raw materials are prostituted out of this country for immediate gain. We're then forced to buy foreign imports as a result of our struggling system. It's all about the buck. Australia is soft and getting worse. If it doesn't turn around, we're gonna run out of material to sell, we'll be broke as a country and have nothing to offer anyone and no way of digging our way out.