VY 2 SS Ute with HBD canopy - what's she worth?

[Dr Terry]

I think you are talking about values for a car with much lower kms & full tilt front line retail price. $15K-$20K is a lot of $$$ for a VY of any type.

On the Sydney market it would struggle to get half that.

Only last week I passed up a 2004 VY series 2 SS ute with 165,000 km on it for $5,000. It was in reasonable nick, probably needing about $1,000 to bring the body & paint up to scratch. Add the HSV canopy to that (Red Book allows $2K-$3K). I could be on the road for $8K-$9K.

A young bloke that works with us, recently purchased a late 2005 VZ HSV Maloo R8 in immaculate condition with 105,000 km on it. This was a one owner Limited Edition 15th Anniversary model (Only 50 Built) & had later (larger) HSV alloys, bigger exhaust & a MAFless tune. He owned it for $18K. The previous owner had it on the market for over 4 months.

The current used car market is very depressed, so expecting $15K-$17K for a 200,000+ km VY van is a bit keen.

Dr Terry

[Vombil]

The current used car market is very depressed, so expecting $15K-$17K for a 200,000+ km VY van is a bit keen.

Dr Terry[/QUOTE]

I agree wholeheartedly with the above statement. Sydney has always had cheap cars. Everyone wants new there. It's not as though these van/utes are growing on trees (i also appreciate ppl aren't 10 deep in the wings either). I just sold the same Vz 06 series 2 Maloo R8 (not ann model) you mentioned over here for $21,000 and it had more miles, plenty more owners, scratches, dents and needed paint to front end (if fussy), needed 1x tyre and new rotors and discs all the way round!

[Innuendo]

I think you are talking about values for a car with much lower kms & full tilt front line retail price. $15K-$20K is a lot of $$$ for a VY of any type.

On the Sydney market it would struggle to get half that.

Only last week I passed up a 2004 VY series 2 SS ute with 165,000 km on it for $5,000. It was in reasonable nick, probably needing about $1,000 to bring the body & paint up to scratch. Add the HSV canopy to that (Red Book allows $2K-$3K). I could be on the road for $8K-$9K.

A young bloke that works with us, recently purchased a late 2005 VZ HSV Maloo R8 in immaculate condition with 105,000 km on it. This was a one owner Limited Edition 15th Anniversary model (Only 50 Built) & had later (larger) HSV alloys, bigger exhaust & a MAFless tune. He owned it for $18K. The previous owner had it on the market for over 4 months.

The current used car market is very depressed, so expecting $15K-$17K for a 200,000+ km VY van is a bit keen.

Dr Terry

Sorry Terry I feel your not really up to speed on on these.

224 HBD official Sandman canopies were released between VY SII to the end of VZ and all carry a HBD CAN marked tag/plate in the engine bay. People who apparently know their Holden's know you can't buy a HBD canopy and you certainly can't get one for 2 to 3K so I have no idea where the Red book value comes from or where they feel you can get one from? OK you can get an AMCAT version new for over $7,000 fitted but these are not exactly the same as the original HBD (even though out of the original mould) the mould has been modified. I suppose it could be a factor of depreciation but that is unrealistic if you can't obtain one the very day it's required. I'm guessing they are talking some other type of bolt on canopy for that money? As for the young blokes HSV Ute you mention $18K plus NEW canopy makes it $25K plus and he would still not have an official one of the 224. Where as on the market recently has been a couple of genuine HSV R8 factory HBD Sandman versions for sale at between $27 and $35K.

I'm with 100% on the high Klms and the asking prices though. But that said the low Klms versions do sell for $20K plus.

yeah but they arent collectable. at this point they are in the usable category. 200,000 is a drop in the ocean. shouldve done more like 250,000 to 300,000 being a commercial trade type vehicle

Some may class them as a tradies Ute but not most. Not collectible? I beg to differ. These are a limited numbers release with official numbering and own unique characteristics.
Of course the more that were used as tradie pigs and the more that discount them as collectible will only help make them more scarce and desirable into the future.
A "normal" car is expected to gain 20,000Klms per year. Anything over this is classed as excessive Klms. So this one is "as expected" for regular shopping trolley. I have records of asking prices for these over the last 3 years and the Klms showing. Quite a few are under 120,000 with some under 100,000Klms. $15K is about right for this car based on what has been mentioned. Of course Western Australia is a different market. I just missed out on one that I was keen on for just under $20K and my son is selling his and has 2 on the hook at just over $20K (although no sale just yet).

If people think less, then I say go and buy one. You'd be lucky to even find one, let alone secure it for less than $15K.
Talking is not doing!

My point is spend a bit more and get a better car. If you only wanted as a trade pig or shopping trolley then your right 200,000Klms is not going to worry you.

[Dr Terry]

People who apparently know their Holden's know you can't buy a HBD canopy and you certainly can't get one for 2 to 3K so I have no idea where the Red book value comes from or where they feel you can get one from? OK you can get an AMCAT version new for over $7,000 fitted but these are not exactly the same as the original HBD (even though out of the original mould) the mould has been modified. I suppose it could be a factor of depreciation but that is unrealistic if you can't obtain one the very day it's required. I'm guessing they are talking some other type of bolt on canopy for that money? As for the young blokes HSV Ute you mention $18K plus NEW canopy makes it $25K plus and he would still not have an official one of the 224. Where as on the market recently has been a couple of genuine HSV R8 factory HBD Sandman versions for sale at between $27 and $35K.

I do know my Holdens & yes, I do realise that the HBD canopy cannot be purchased as a separate item & that they are different to the AMCAT, or anything else on the market.

All I am quoting is things as they are ATM in the used car market in Sydney. I still say that $15K-$17K is very very high for a 205,000 km VY SS ute, in this condition, HBD canopy or not.

Red Book is at best a quide, but I use it as a starting point. They have been wrong before & yes, I may be slightly out of touch with these 'vans'.

They compile their figures from actual sales, from car yards & auction house sales across the country. The $2K-$3K figure for the HBD canopy would be the average figure gleaned by comparing VY/VZ utes (without canopy) with the equivalent model with canopy that actual sold.

Those figures might be based on a very small statistical sample, but they a real sales, not what somebody is asking.

If the OP's car was in better condition body & paint-wise & had much lower kms on it, then based on what you say about the rarity of the 224 HBD canopy versions, then yes, a figure somewhere between mine ($8K-$9K) & yours ($15K-$17K) could be achieved.

The golden rule in all used car sales, is that cars are worth what they actually sell for, not what somebody is asking.

Dr Terry

[Vombil]

The golden rule in all used car sales, is that cars are worth what they actually sell for, not what somebody is asking.

Dr Terry[/QUOTE]

I had a WB van for sale last year. Got a few genuine offers around $9,000 but I wanted more. So i waited till $10,500 came along. Is it worth $9,000 which is what the bulk of the buyers wanted to pay or the $10,500 which it actually sold for because 1 bloke really wanted it?

asking price and selling price are not often too far away i've found. I wouldnt mind betting that the greater majority of cars sell within 10% of the list price. many people can do adequate homework prior to listing so it's not so much a suck it and see anymore. I bet in Sydney you get lots of private sales where they add $1,000 on top of the trade-in price they were given. Everyone one wins except for the used car dealers in that scenario

[Dr Terry]

asking price and selling price are not often too far away i've found. I wouldnt mind betting that the greater majority of cars sell within 10% of the list price. many people can do adequate homework prior to listing so it's not so much a suck it and see anymore. I bet in Sydney you get lots of private sales where they add $1,000 on top of the trade-in price they were given. Everyone one wins except for the used car dealers in that scenario

You've hit the nail on the head with that comment. Also it's often more like a 20%+ difference.

It goes like this. I guy has got a 1998 brand X & he wants to trade up to something newer, maybe even brand new.

He is offered a trade-in valuation of say $5,000 for his old girl, but has 2nd thoughts when he sees them on carsales & ebay for $$7,000 to $8,000, because that's the sticker price on Parramatta Rd. Never mind that the Parramatta Rd dealer, has to bring it up to scratch, warranty it, accept a trade-in loss & actually make a profit to pay his wages & overheads.

He then thinks "wait a minute, this dealer is ripping me off, it's worth more than $5,000". So he forgoes the trade-in & pays the dealer the full amount for the newer car, so for a short time he now owns 2 cars, while he attempts to sell his old one, for more than $5,000.

So, he advertises the old girl for $7,500 (ONO) & finds he gets virtually no response. He might actually ring one of the others advertised & ask them, "are you getting any response to your advert". Short answer is no ! Oh well, I'll reduce the price a bit & see how that goes, $7,000 = no response, 6,500 = no response, finally at $6,000 & he gets a few phone calls & after a few weeks of trying, a real person actually comes to look at the car. He walks around it, knocks the sh!t out of it & offers $5,000. He then says, "no way, too low, but I'll accept $5,500". so the looker walks away. After & few months & a few more knock-backs, the rego is running out & he's now got to get rid of it, regardless. The next looker offers $4,500, which he grabs with glee.

Moral of the story. Just because a car is advertised for $7,500, doesn't mean squat as to its real value.

Dr Terry

[Innuendo]

All I am quoting is things as they are ATM in the used car market in Sydney. I still say that $15K-$17K is very very high for a 205,000 km VY SS ute, in this condition, HBD canopy or not.

I 100% agree with the over 15K price but around 15K in WA is about right (how many of the 224 can be available in WA?). But like I said I would hang out and pay more for a better lower Klms version personally.

Red Book is at best a quide, but I use it as a starting point. They have been wrong before & yes, I may be slightly out of touch with these 'vans'.

They are out of touch and are NOT factoring in or even considering the rarity of the vehicle. But this is true of most people who aren't interested in them or are too naive to see just how collectible they will become. Obviously if you are going to speculate you want to most upmarket version you can lay your hands on. The value for people will be in the SS, SSZ and HSV variants and NOW is the time to get them. You can still get them with low Klms, currently you can buy most (not all) replacement items direct new from Holden and buy one for a reasonable price. For what you get it is a very good ride. You also can obtain real information without the "myths" creeping in. (Although every ad I read already has "myth" build numbers made up). Think of it like being about the go back to the '70's and pick a ride you like with the options you want with the knowledge you have now about what prices have become. I'll have a L31, M21 HQ Sandman Van thanks and I'll visit your spares parts department before I leave to get all the parts people will be wanting and needing next century!

They compile their figures from actual sales, from car yards & auction house sales across the country. The $2K-$3K figure for the HBD canopy would be the average figure gleaned by comparing VY/VZ utes (without canopy) with the equivalent model with canopy that actual sold.

Those figures might be based on a very small statistical sample, but they a real sales, not what somebody is asking.

Yeah maybe, but I'm not convinced on what "canopies" are being included because Holden offered the "Sandman" via HBD and the Carry Boy bolts on as factory also. I know of five "Sandman" versions that have sold in the last year that all reached over $20K (Two are members of this very forum) and all have been private sales. The same would be true of a '70's Sandman with 700,000Klms on the clock by Red Books standards. They are all about depreciating consumables (not collectibles!). The auctions and the car dealers wouldn't have the foggiest about these HBD Sandman canopy optioned Ute's. The general public doesn't and even most car enthusiasts don't, gee most of the owners of them don't! But that doesn't mean it will always be that way. Lets face it, something from each model becomes collectible. SS, GTS, GTR, HSV etc. These VY/VZ's are odd ball enough with the right amount of features and the HBD tag to back them up.

Red book, insurance companies and others are lumping these 224 into being just old VY's into the same category every mans daily transport (and that is the job of Red Book) just an old SS Ute. But what I'm saying is it has little to no relevance to those who see them as a future collectible and know with the loss of Holden in Australia with the V8 to follow these will rocket in value for the person who wants rarity and slightly out of the norm.

If people are thinking it's just a Ute with a canopy, you're right. Just like saying a '70's Sandman is just a Holden/Belmont/Kingswood with some stickers!

[Dr Terry]

The auctions and the car dealers wouldn't have the foggiest about these HBD Sandman canopy optioned Ute's. The general public doesn't and even most car enthusiasts don't, gee most of the owners of them don't!

Yes, the general public wouldn't have a clue, but the auction houses & many astute dealers certainly would.

Red Book specifically lists it an "HBD canopy option" which it is & plated as such. As you well know, it's not a bolt-on accessory & they know that.

The other point of course is that Red Book only records licensed dealer transactions (auctions & car yards) so private retail sales are not factored in. This probably leads to the low figures recorded.

Dr Terry