What are the next collectables? What should we keeping?

[HK1837]

I totally get why people think a HSV is a Holden. But if a HSV is a Holden then a Lexus especially the early ones are a Toyota, a Maverick is a Nissan and a Lexan is a Holden. You might as well call a Corolla a Holden too, and an Apollo a Toyota as all of these have more in common with their cousin car than a HSV does with its Holden base vehicle.

[davegmh]

I totally get why people think a HSV is a Holden. But if a HSV is a Holden then a Lexus especially the early ones are a Toyota, a Maverick is a Nissan and a Lexan is a Holden. You might as well call a Corolla a Holden too, and an Apollo a Toyota as all of these have more in common with their cousin car than a HSV does with its Holden base vehicle.

On the serious side of this debate I will ask HK this question. If a Holden Special Vehicle car (with lion badges) is not a Holden then what is it ? And I have always looked at a Lexus as a Toyota and an Apollo as a Toyota etc.

[Innuendo]

I totally get why people think a HSV is a Holden. But if a HSV is a Holden then a Lexus especially the early ones are a Toyota, a Maverick is a Nissan and a Lexan is a Holden. You might as well call a Corolla a Holden too, and an Apollo a Toyota as all of these have more in common with their cousin car than a HSV does with its Holden base vehicle.

A Lexus is made by Toyota but is not part of the Toyota model range. It was never an improved/modified production model.
A Ford Maverick is a Nissan Patrol.
A Toyota Lexen is a Holden Commodore.
A Holden Apollo is a Toyota Camry.
A Holden Drover is a Suzuki.
A Holden Nova is a Toyota Corolla.
A Ford Laser is a Mazda 323.
A Ford Telstar is a Mazda 626.

... and could go on with many, many more and these are all production models with a simple badge change and little else.

All HSV is, is a tart up division of Holden using Holden production models.
Therefore outside of the odd HSV Nissan Pulsar/Holden Astra they are Holden Cars.
If you take off a Commodore badge and replace it with a Clubsport, GTS, VRX or whatever the basis is still a Holden Commodore production car.

There is no reason to over complicate things. As already stated... if it looks like a duck!

[Dr Terry]

A Lexus is made by Toyota but is not part of the Toyota model range. It was never an improved/modified production model.

This is only true for some model Lexus. An ES300 for example is a Camry, it even uses the same model number on the body ID plate. It was like this for all 3 generations so far: VCV10, MCV20 & MCV30. The RX330 is just a Kluger (model numbers MCU28 & GSU35/40), & The Lexus GS300 & SC400 are Toyota Soarers. The LX470 is a fancy Landcruiser V8 (UZJ100). I can go on.

There are some Lexus models that are not made as a Toyotas, but many are. It depends what you call improved/modified. HSVs shared virtually all body panel with regular Holdens, but Lasers & Mazda 323 in the 90s were very different to each other.

The whole badge engineering thing has been done to death forever. Look at 1950 Yank & Pommy cars, BMC in particular were masters at it & have a look under US market Buicks, Oldsmobiles & Pontiacs in those days, they shared a lot of stuff with Chevs, except the engines of course.

Have a close look at an 1959 Edsel, it's just a tank Fairlane with different grille & tail-lights.

Dr Terry

[Innuendo]

This is only true for some model Lexus.

Fair enough, the little I know about them could be written on a cigarette paper as they hold less then zero interest for me.
But surely you get my point. HSV cars are Holden production models that get tarted up and like you believe they should be counted as one entity.

[Gaddy]

The Coupe four IMO will hold its value well. Rarity or low numbered special builds will get there also.
But I really don't like the 88 walikies they just look waaayyy overdone, but they are fetching big $$, so I guess it's all about personal taste in the end.

Gaddy.

[HK1837]

And in the end the fact we are all nominating different cars means there may be a few that people actually want in the future. wbute with HSV's in general, Innuendo with HBD utes, me with V2 CV8 Monaros, Jennie and Rod with their GT - all very different and any just as valid as the other as a prediction.

[hx-sandman]

So "collectable" Australian cars thus far IMO have been driven by the nostalgia one gets when you hit that late 30's to early 50's age bracket. You start to desire the "tough" cars of your teens or early 20's - and so do a certain number of your peers and prices escalate. For many here it is the Sandman model. For some it's the Brock cars of the early 80's.

So if we take that as a basis we need to be thinking about what the next generation after most of us were into when they were in the ten to early 20's bracket.

Where I grew up it was all about Japanese cars after the age of torana's, monaro's and gts had passed. The generation after me were into skyline's, supra's etc.

So will they be collectable? Maybe not, but I can't see many base model Holdens making anyone rich. The HSV Coupe4 would be my top tip for "modern" Australian cars, but so few people even know them. Personally, I find the modern "monaros" have aged badly in the looks department.

Of course the iconic sleeper is the WB - WB utes (factory kingswood V8's) have not gone down in value at any time that I remember and good ones still sell for more than they cost new. Perhaps the VE/VF utes will hold value when production ceases. Won't make you a fortune but look after it and it will still be worth money in 20 years.

[wbute]

WB did plummet in value from mid 90's until now really. I see they are starting climb in value again. See some asking 10k bit there are never any good original ones for sale. People can't even tell the difference between a Kingswood and a standard ute anymore.
There is no way you can count all commodore based platform cars I. One sales group. It would not make any difference if you could anyway. They have still sold the same amount of cars. They would still get beaten as other companies would do the same thing. Toyota could count all their different Landcruisers in one group. I guess they would out number total Commodore sales by a bit.
HSV was hardly going to revive the Sandman name instead of the Maloo name. Sandmans were not really desirable in 1990 were they. Maybe now the name would generate some interest.
The majority of people on this forum are not going to have any connection to HSV as they were developed for a different generation. I like the VG Maloo because it came at a time when Holden had abandoned a generation of young people who wanted a stand out performance ute. Remember up till then my generation had only a choice of second hand 70's designed models from Holden. The Maloo was what most young people wanted, not something that their Dads drove around in.

[Dr Terry]

There is no way you can count all commodore based platform cars I. One sales group. It would not make any difference if you could anyway. They have still sold the same amount of cars. They would still get beaten as other companies would do the same thing. Toyota could count all their different Landcruisers in one group. I guess they would out number total Commodore sales by a bit.

Not so.

There are basically only 3 types of Landcruisers sold concurrently, the large (150 Series), Prado (120 Series) & Troopies (70 Series). I believe vFacts count Prados separately from the other 2 & then 150 & 70 all in one figure. This includes LWB, SWB, 2-doors, 4-doors, utes, wagons, everything.

If they can do it, why can't Commodore.

If you put all Commodores together in Feb sales figures for example, Commodores would be somewhere near 3,800+ region.

I doubt very much that all Landcruisers combined would exceed 1,000 units for the same month.

Can somebody find those figures.

Dr Terry