What are the next collectables? What should we keeping?

[Flamenco_not_Flamingo]

You are all starting to sound like your parents lol.

What did you say young man? lol

[davegmh]

Isn't Kia Korean for Jaguar?

No......

[Valencia]

Kia is Korean for crap

[davegmh]

I totally get why people think a HSV is a Holden. But if a HSV is a Holden then a Lexus especially the early ones are a Toyota, a Maverick is a Nissan and a Lexan is a Holden. You might as well call a Corolla a Holden too, and an Apollo a Toyota as all of these have more in common with their cousin car than a HSV does with its Holden base vehicle.

On the serious side of this debate I will ask HK this question. If a Holden Special Vehicle car (with lion badges) is not a Holden then what is it ? And I have always looked at a Lexus as a Toyota and an Apollo as a Toyota etc.

[V8VAN]

Hey Byron, you get to have the same conversation twice lol.

Might be a more rational discussion here though.

[Innuendo]

I totally get why people think a HSV is a Holden. But if a HSV is a Holden then a Lexus especially the early ones are a Toyota, a Maverick is a Nissan and a Lexan is a Holden. You might as well call a Corolla a Holden too, and an Apollo a Toyota as all of these have more in common with their cousin car than a HSV does with its Holden base vehicle.

A Lexus is made by Toyota but is not part of the Toyota model range. It was never an improved/modified production model.
A Ford Maverick is a Nissan Patrol.
A Toyota Lexen is a Holden Commodore.
A Holden Apollo is a Toyota Camry.
A Holden Drover is a Suzuki.
A Holden Nova is a Toyota Corolla.
A Ford Laser is a Mazda 323.
A Ford Telstar is a Mazda 626.

... and could go on with many, many more and these are all production models with a simple badge change and little else.

All HSV is, is a tart up division of Holden using Holden production models.
Therefore outside of the odd HSV Nissan Pulsar/Holden Astra they are Holden Cars.
If you take off a Commodore badge and replace it with a Clubsport, GTS, VRX or whatever the basis is still a Holden Commodore production car.

There is no reason to over complicate things. As already stated... if it looks like a duck!

[Dr Terry]

A Lexus is made by Toyota but is not part of the Toyota model range. It was never an improved/modified production model.

This is only true for some model Lexus. An ES300 for example is a Camry, it even uses the same model number on the body ID plate. It was like this for all 3 generations so far: VCV10, MCV20 & MCV30. The RX330 is just a Kluger (model numbers MCU28 & GSU35/40), & The Lexus GS300 & SC400 are Toyota Soarers. The LX470 is a fancy Landcruiser V8 (UZJ100). I can go on.

There are some Lexus models that are not made as a Toyotas, but many are. It depends what you call improved/modified. HSVs shared virtually all body panel with regular Holdens, but Lasers & Mazda 323 in the 90s were very different to each other.

The whole badge engineering thing has been done to death forever. Look at 1950 Yank & Pommy cars, BMC in particular were masters at it & have a look under US market Buicks, Oldsmobiles & Pontiacs in those days, they shared a lot of stuff with Chevs, except the engines of course.

Have a close look at an 1959 Edsel, it's just a tank Fairlane with different grille & tail-lights.

Dr Terry

[Innuendo]

This is only true for some model Lexus.

Fair enough, the little I know about them could be written on a cigarette paper as they hold less then zero interest for me.
But surely you get my point. HSV cars are Holden production models that get tarted up and like you believe they should be counted as one entity.

[wbute]

Dodge, Desoto and Fargo utes of the 50's. All one and the same vehicle with minute grill changes.

[HK1837]

I get the HSV products look like a Holden product, but in every respect otherwise they are not a Holden car. A Holden car is a Commodore, Calais, Ute or Statesman. I bet you ask any HSV owner if their GTS is a Commodore they'll tell you where to go.

My original point was that a HSV GTO, GTS or Coupe4 IS NOT a Monaro. They will always be associated with the Monaro like the HX LE, the HZ GTS and the HQ SS will always be. But they are not and never will be a Monaro.