Only one choice

[davegmh]

Well.... HSV cars are built in a Holden plant and then exported to a HSV plant to be modified. They are still equipped with a Holden issued VIN? Cars that Holden import from another plant overseas and arrive are then issued with a Holden VIN right? They are now a Holden. HSV would need to remove the Holden issued VIN to claim it was a HSV brand car and not just a Holden modified by HSV wouldn't it?

I was talking to a Holden tragic yesterday and he was telling me that Holden owns a share , albeit very small , in HSV. Can anyone confirm this?

[wbute]

If you read the Magnum thread you will see how urban myths become truth. There is only one Magnum ute.

[wbute]

If HSV is not Holden. Then Corsa is not, HDT is not, Sydney Special Vehicles is not etc etc. They all attached their own build plates to cars sourced from Holden.

[davegmh]

Attachment 10490

Thats the thing with a fact, there is no convincing required! It is a simple fact.

HSV owned by Holden ? Is this a fact ?

[HK1837]

HSV is a stand alone company afaik. It was a joint venture between Holden (the company) and Tom Walkinshaw.

[HK1837]

None of you are getting what I mean, or how I see it. I'll see if I can simplify where i'm coming from with an example.

Electrolux (the Company, parent is Swedish) in Australia produce (or have produced) and own various brands like Westinghouse, Simpson, Chef, Kelvinator etc. Some were Australian brands, others not. They now produce (or until recently produced) Electrolux branded stuff alongside others like Simpson, Westinghouse etc. Many of the products have been identical but with different looking externals eg Simpson dishwashers and washing machines were the budget and Westinghouse the more sophisticated looking. So because the Company is called Electrolux and they sell Electrolux branded stuff which is actually identical (but a different face) to the Westinghouse banded product does the Westinghouse product automatically become "an Electrolux"? Lets say they released an upmarket version branded ESW (acronym for Electrolux Special Whitegoods) which was identical to an Electrolux but had more features, a higher efficiency and more powerful motor and had all sorts of cr@p hanging off the outside. It was marketed, sold, serviced and warranted through unique channels. Does it become an "Electrolux"? To some people it might be. To me it is a different brand. No different to Lexus sticking a 5.7L V8 into a 200 series Landcruiser, tarting it up and branding it as a luxury higher performance and more expensive version of essentially the same thing, but called a Lexus LX570.

Same with GMC (which I think is General Motors Company) trucks. These were at times sold alongside Pontiac vehicles at Pontiac dealers to give the Pontiac division of GMH a full range of vehicles to allow them to compete with Chevrolet. They were essentially an "upmarket" version of the same thing in the Chevrolet range, often how a Pontiac was seen except many GMC's were really just a Chev with "shinier" bits on it. So because both brands (GMC Trucks and (General Motors) Chevrolet) are a GM brand does the GMC automatically get seen as a Chevrolet? Or vice versa, the Chevy as a GMC? They are far closer together than a Holden and a HSV.

Just my take on it anyway.

[hqhzvans]

I think you just hit the nail on the head with your last sentence no disrespect intended, to the everyday punter HSV is an extension of Holden pure and simple you can argue about technicalities all day long but at the end of the day it is all in the name Holden Special Vehicles, I find your argument and reasoning interesting but agree to disagree that is the great thing about healthy debates everybody has their own opinion.

[Dick61]

Who cares? HSV do some amazing mechanical work to Holdens but as far as I am concerned their design department is crap. They take a perfectly good Holden product and go so far overboard with the ugly stick that I certainly wouldn't want one.
When was the last Sandman produced by HSV?

[HK1837]

I think you just hit the nail on the head with your last sentence no disrespect intended, to the everyday punter HSV is an extension of Holden pure and simple you can argue about technicalities all day long but at the end of the day it is all in the name Holden Special Vehicles, I find your argument and reasoning interesting but agree to disagree that is the great thing about healthy debates everybody has their own opinion.

Vert true. I suppose to me it aligns with the earlier GMH stuff. GMH (General Motors Holden's Pty Ltd) did lots of stuff like fridges and trucks but only ever produced the Holden car. But then they introduced the Torana, so now they built the Holden and the Torana then the Statesman. So today people call a Torana "a Holden", also the Statesman but really it isn't, it is a Torana or Statesman produced by GMH. The Holdens are the Belmonts, Premiers, GTS's etc. However today they use the brand Holden to cover all vehicle lines from Cruze to Statesman to Colorado, and the equivalent pty ltd is now GM Holden Limited and the business name that markets the Holden brands is Holden. But GM Holden Ltd also own Hummer (GM) Australia and Cadillac (GM) Australia. Does that mean a Hummer sold here is a Holden? Is a fridge built by the Houehold Appliances Division of GMH a Holden? (long bow I know but not that much different from the case in point).

Out of interest Holden Special Vehicles (the business) is owned by Premoso PTY Limited who also own the businesses HSVI, HSV1, HSV Individual, HSV centre and interestingly Holden By Design. HBD is only in SA but the others are registered in many States.

[wbute]

My guess is all those trading names are to reduce tax. You can't take much notice of company trading names.

GMH only had one product line until the small car range was introduced. So really they had never actually given the large car range a name until Commodore came along. Much the same as Ford with the Model T.