Hq sandman panel vans & Utes - how many?

[HK1837]

Oh you miss the point. Holden never gave them a code and that is what is important. It is the only thing that people have that is black and white to identify vehicles. A shipping container of paperwork that no one has access to indicating what GMH intended has no use to anyone. They never gave Sandman any unique model codes.
The few unique trim codes and option combinations are how a Sandman is seperates from other Holden commercials. Yet ther are Sandmans that are identical to standard commercials and will never be proven.
They are not a seperate model and that is the black and white reality. All they had to do make then a model was change one letter on the tags. Mor N to another letter. They didn't.

I'm not missing any points James. You forget how long I've been working on these things. You are totally missing the point and off the mark wrt how not just GMH but GM built and marketed the vehicles and what the numbering systems mean. Again, NO-ONE other than yourself seems to be hung up on model codes. It is an outright fact that it was totally normal for GM and GMH to build vehicles as option packages on a base model code, it was the exception in GMH that a sports/performance type variant vehicle got a model code unique to itself - and those exceptions are a HK GTS327, a HQ GTS350 and a second type Brabham Torana. All the rest of them share coding with a significantly different vehicle and the variants are created using special vehicle package coding in most cases, others like HT-HG GTS350 manual and auto are very different vehicles to each other but share model coding.

Edit - I thought I should add that the HK-HJ plus HZ GTS also use a unique model coding - but they are not a sports/performance variant of a lesser vehicle, they are a base vehicle like a Belmont, Kingswood or Premier. Their next level performance vehicle in HK-HG was not an option pack on them - it was given its own model code ie 1837. However in HJ and HZ the GTS was the performance variant I guess by default as GMH dropped the premium performance vehicle by then. What is not known is if the 400ci engine hadn't been dropped for HJ whether the HJ GTS with 400ci engine would have been just an engine option on the GTS (like the 350 was on LS in HQ) or if it'd have been a separate model like 1837 was in HK-HQ.

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So you use the unique Sandman model code to identify Sandmans?

No you don't unless it is Acacia Ridge BAP vehicle, nor do you do it for HQ GTS sedan, HQ GTS350 sedan, XU1, L34 or A9X - you have to look to other areas of the vehicle and/or ID plates.

[Vombil]

i wonder if all the puff would come out of the sandman market if you simply made people understand that a thunder ute is the modern day equivalent...

makes me very glad I sold mine. as more people have greater access to information all it does is create more question marks as anyone looking to fake one has ALL the info they need to do so. I wonder how you'd go explaining to the magistrate you sold your car as a sandman because 'mysandman members told me it probably was'. i mean seriously if you have an HQ and you're hanging your hat on some console mounts that are covered in carpet as the only means to verify you have a sandman then you've got problems.

rails easily re-stamped and plates easily removed and replaced (to the untrained eye). I can smell some big law suits in the future if peoples investments hang on all these shitty little pieces of the puzzle that need to fall together to put forward a strong case but still never a 100% guarantee.

perhaps it will only be XU3 and XX7 stamped cars that will hold $$ in the long term and others will fall into the 'replica' category.

I respect what Byron is saying here and I'm sure the intentions were clear at the time but without a model code it has created a real mess some 35-40 years on!!!!

[steve1975]

A lot of valid points here & a hint of passion. I have a HQ sandman which took 3 years to find. I used all info on this website & a few messages to HK before I purchased the car. I agree you can easily be misled purchasing cars of all makes after they are restored, not just sandmans. For my decision the key factors were tags match chassis, tags were on the car with standard rivets. 30B interior code. & console mount. Most of all Dated 1974 The period they were marketed. I have one. its not for sale, I'm not scared of any additional info people might have to judge my car. I have already had uninformed comments on the full length headliner, side windows & The flutes behind the doors on HQ bodied cars. The thread was started to identify HQ sandman numbers. Getting back to that HK has been provided with enormous amounts of info regarding tags Etc. Just wondering how his numbers are stacking up With the sandman models. In addition was wondering how many WB vans were made, the sandman website lacks info on this model van & not to mention ute.

[Robbo]

I'm with you vombil and I'm glad I was fortunate to have owned a sandy ute when new. Because id plates and number's etc meant nothing, I couldn't tell you where it was built or if it was XX7 stamped. Now, some 33 year's later since it was sold, I drive a much better ute and am amazed that people are so interested in them and replicate them.

Cheer's.

[wbute]

Ho hum. They are a model then. You just can't identify them with it because they never received it.

[HK1837]

No HX-HZ Sandman aren't a model. They were intended to be viewed as a separate stand alone vehicle like a HX LE, or a HQ Monaro GTS sedan. The actual by the book model codes on these examples are not what the vehicles were ever intended to be: HX Holden ute, HX GTS coupe, HQ V8 Kingswood sedan. You have to look further than model codes on any of these to know what you have, in all three cases it is or can be the trim code. Yes the LE is easy as there was no other HX coupes, but if the LE had been built when the bodies were assembled in 1975 it would have been a HJ LE coupe and then you'd be in the same situation as others ie check the trim code.