Keeps you on your toes Byron! Maybe we need some GM badges?
Keeps you on your toes Byron! Maybe we need some GM badges?
Well I think one of the big truck brands were putting Allison or Cummins badges on them. Might have been Doge Rams with Cummins. so why not I suppose! GMH used to use "Powered by Holden" badges on Bedfords too. Pretty sure the bigger Bedfords with Detroit 2 strokes had Detroit Diesel badging somwhere as well.
^^^ there's plenty of GM-powered diesel locomotives getting around with GM badges; haven't seen any fitted with Chev badges....... yet....!
Yeah a bit like "Torana by Holden" or "Statesman By Holden"
^^That's the blurred sh!te I was referring to. Once marketing gets their hands on it anything can happen. That is exactly how the Holden SS became a Monaro GTS sedan.
It was not only Holden which did this.
Once upon a time most manufacturers produced just one car line.
In the 20s, 30s, 40s 50s etc., if somebody referred to their car as a Ford or a Chev or a Dodge, you knew exactly what they meant. During the 50s they added more luxury variants & more car lines. Chev for example added Biscayne, Bel-Air, Impala etc. to their big car range as well as developing the Corvette as a totally separate car line. Today they have countless car lines, so if you said I've got a Chev, it could be anything from a Spark, to a Corvette or a Suburban.
Same with Holden, the first series was simply a Holden, no problems. They then added Special, then Premier, Kingswood, Belmont, Monaro, Brougham etc. but it was all one car-line & we knew them all as Holdens. The Torana came along as a different (smaller) car line, but the things became very blurred when GM-H had Holden badges on some series Toranas, but not others. GM-H at the time were clearly not sure that all of their in-house designed cars were in fact to be called Holdens. In the late 60s, Vauxhall production had just ceased, Chevs & Pontiacs were still being built & of course they still made Bedfords. In UC for example, Sunbirds were badged Holdens, but Toranas were not. They were all marketed as Holdens however. Their workshop & parts manuals all referred to them as Holden Toranas.
The Statesman range (HQ-WB) was the exception. In an effort to push the new LWB car upmarket & make it appear to be 'above' a Holden, GM-H marketed them as 'Statesman by GM'. There were no Holden badges & all literature (as Byron has said) was labelled HQ Holden & Statesman. The one link that they had with Holden (or GM-H anyway) was their wreath & crest badge which clearly had the Holden 'Lion & Stone' emblem included, even the hubcaps say 'General Motors-Holden', any 'GM' style emblem being totally absent.
It didn't really work as planned, as everybody simply referred to them as being Holdens. After all you purchased them from a Holden dealer, not a GM dealer !!
I don't believe Holden tried this with any other series, even the later VQ onwards Statesman & Caprice.
Separating the Calais & Adventra etc. from the Commodore line is similar, but they are all still badged Holden.
Dr Terry
and this is why we know them all as Holden's and why most of the world knows the Gen III engine as a Chev engine.
Right or wrong that's the way it is. Byron writing "I know it's not a Chev" is what I was picking up on. Had just been GM LS1 Gen III (or similar) in the description I wouldn't have had a dig.
But there's little sport or discussion in that!
As I said though when publishing factual stuff it does need to be correct. Typing stuff here in technical answers is publishing in a form. In general or generic comments it doesn't matter so much. I am correct on the LS engine though, there is probably better sport to be had where the lines are more blurred! I'd reckon that more than over 90% of people who are interested in GM history know an LS isn't a Chev engine. It is probably just the owners that use them and don't know better that think they are a Chevrolet engine. The rest are probably like the Ford fan that owns a GT Falcon that points at a V2 Monaro and calls it "just another Commodore" or other such ill informed nonsense, and won't be told otherwise, yet gets upset when I call their GT a Fairmont! Believe me it happens.
I get it Byron, but I'm not sure you are smelling what I'm stepping in. You can be factual all you like (I agree with that) but if that's your plan then you write as you would publish; that doesn't include "I know it's not a Chev" or similar you simply write what it is. Public pressure is great force. Holden didn't ever want the V2 to be known as a Monaro but the public wouldn't have it any other way. Using a search engine finds what you are looking for (more so) if you type Chev Gen III LS1 then say GM Gen III LS1. Test it with Google or any search engine.
I said i'd write as if being published in factual responses, normally to specific questions (but not always). The bit you are (actually incorrectly) quoting was in what I would call general or generic commentary, specifically about what is in consideration for one of my HK GTS's. The actual statement was: Not a Chev engine I know, but at least was fitted to Chevs and Pontiacs and Monaros over here! The intention of the statement was actually to appease those (and they are out there, but not particularly prevalent here) who may comment on the sanity of putting a non Chevrolet engine into a HK GTS, whereas my comeback is it is the same engine as fitted to a Australian made Monaro.Originally Posted by Innuendo
I reckon you'd find more relevant searches looking for "windsurfing" than you would for "sailboarding" too but it doesn't mean windsurfing is correct! It is the old adage, never trust what you find on the 'web, less than half of it will actually be close to correct.
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