W.T.F

[Absinth]

Sorry. The only positive in this thread was a small amount of discussion about HJ twilight surrounds. Right from the start old mate was called a loser and accused of being high. Total rubbish.
It's all very well talking about someone's adds, but to personally insult someone is just wrong ( I read his reply and it was out of line as far as language went but I don't blame him).
As far as I know no one has the authority to carve up any adds about Sandmans publicly do they?
If my kids carried on like this I would tell them to treat people with respect.
I should add that no offence to the poster of the thread is intended either. It seemed to derail pretty quickly though with some of the replies.

Sorry James but I strongly disagree, since when did you become all touchy feely???

Lets look at some facts....

Fact 1. it was advertised on Gumtree as a 100% genuine Sandman for $50,000.... even if it was a Sandman this is a ludicrous price for a shell and bits. Big Rob bought Rod and Jennies Madiera Red genuine Sandman for around that price in original running condition and semi restored with bare metal respray.

Fact 2. it aint a Sandman.

Fact 3. From Gumtree ad.

100% A GENUINE SANDMAN! I've spoken to Holden today and they verify it's genuine and will send a letter of authenticity to me

The seller is blatantly lying here, there is no way anyone from Holden with any authority would authenticate this vehicle.

Fact 4. From Gumtree ad.

I know the true value of this classic and have been advised by Holden as well as sandman experts that i should be asking upwards of $50000 as it sits now

again, total BS. There is no way anyone from Holden with any authority would advise anyone on the value of an old Holden.... and... anyone who knows anything about Sandmans would authenticate this vehicle.

Fact 4. From Gumtree ad.

Selling ONLY because it's sat in the same spot for the last 15 or so years and the reality is if someone who has the ability to resto or properly appreciate what they have just purchased doesn't take it off my hands then unfortunately it will probably stay there!!

As far as I know/knew when I brought the van last week for $7000 it was genuine

I don't know what anyone else thinks but to me.... in the gumtree ad he has made out as though he has had it for the last 15yrs????

Fact 5.

I brought the van last week for $7000

Really..... and yet he was asking $50,000 for it..... the Gumtree ad has been amended to now match the asking price of $15,000... so still wanting to more than double his purchase price in less than a week.....


With all the lying and BS coming from this seller I wouldn't believe a word he says.....


Last time I checked, we still have the right of "Freedom of speech" in this country and the right to call BS on people blatantly trying to rip others off.

It's not a Sandman and even if it was it still wouldn't be worth the now dropped to price of $15000.

A few bagged me out saying I was a fool when I said this was worth around $4000..... and it is a genuine Sandman. Seems I was a little low.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-HJ...-/172147173263

[Wombat7051]

WB totally agree there is no need for name calling or derogatory comments.

However would you not agree that Ash has been sold something that was not as described. It would appear that he did his research and believed in what he was told. Had he put it up here he might have been able to avoid buying something that wasn't as described and paid $7000 for it. There are more threads then I can count on the question being asked, is this a sandman.

As to the comments on the price being asked. I think that Ash believed what he was told and thought he could make a nice profit based on the information he had. By the fact that he bought the van as a sandman and it isn't, would imply that he was, unlike the members on this forum, was unaware of the identification pieces such as full hood lining rails. He was unaware and as such he believes that he is now stuck with a dude. An opinion that I do not share however one that he expressed.

As I say most of the members of this forum are well aware of the general going price for sandman in various states of repair and as such this van caught a lot of attention due to the price being asked. May I also say it was not just this site but also other sites that featured this add.

As for the link that I placed, I did so more as a cautionary tail of what can and has happened when large sums of money are being exchanged, than as a swipe at the seller. As for caveat emptor yes I agree however but is there not also deceptive and fraudulent conduct or making fraudulent statement for gain. It would appear that Ash has been a victim of this rather than a victim of slander.
He placed an add based on the information he was given, in the first place $50000, as more information became available he reduced the price to $25000. To me this shows there was no intent to deceive the buying public. This has now continued to him posting seeking help in regaining some of his losses.

Therefore WB would you not say that aside from all of the comments, this post has achieved some good results.
1. No person outlaid a large amount of money for a non genuine item
2. The seller has show great courage in seeking more information in the light of new information being brought to his attention.
3. He has stood up in the face of these comments and shown great guts in saying he was duped.

Now maybe as a community we can help restore some of the anger and hurt by finding a good price for Ash and helping out a fellow car enthusiast rather then seeking retribution and blame for things said in the heat of the moment.

My 2 cents

[davegmh]

Absinth...........I agree totally.

[Valencia]

Yep Sean your 100% correct

[playwme]

What Absinth said. Normally I think it's a bit disrespectful to be critical of prices just by looking at a photo online, but in this case I have no sympathy for the seller at all if he's laid out $7k on this believing it to be genuine and somehow worth $50k, or even $15k.

The whole "quick flip" thing doesn't sit right with me. I've seen people blatantly lie to original old owners to screw the price right down so they can flip it for twice the money without doing a thing to it. Those people aren't car enthusiasts, just scumbags, and are the direct reason hobbies like this get put out of reach of the average joe.

Dont get me wrong, I've made money on cars before. I never give a bullshit story to the seller though and the buyers usually ask me if its for sale and makes an offer.

[wbute]

No the point is the pathetic personal comments.
If someone posted the thread asking if it was a genuine Sandman and asked the value it would make sense to pass sensible answers.
Enough of the rubbish personal comments on here. I am simply stating the facts. If your kids get bullied at school over any issue I hope you take a stand against it. If your kids are bullies I hope you teach them better. If someone gets bullied on here over their add then I stand firm in saying pull your heads in. It's pathetic and take a look at your selves.
I won't stand for that crap and I am not scared to say it.

[Absinth]

Oh come on James you're talking crap now. What personal comments??? The only nasty personal comments came from the seller.... Yep, I said he's full of it... and I called him a dick... so what, he is full of it and he is being a dick. I'm an Aussie and I call a spade a spade. Calling someone out for being full of it or a dick is not bullying.... if I'm talking crap and someone say's I'm full of it or being a dick then I take it on the chin..... I am sick to death of all this touchy feely, my feelings are hurt crap.... put a spoon of cement in your drink and harden up.

Geez, you look at someone the wrong way these days and you're suddenly accused of bullying. Constantly picking on someone both verbally and physically is bullying. One off calling someone a dick or full of it is not...... I don't believe in bullying but for FFS lets not label everything that hurts your feelings as bullying.

[Valencia]

I think this thread is just about cooked
just sayin

[SLR_dave]

I dunno, Ive been offline for a while (just busy since I bought the Hilux with the smokey motor... long story) but I think it's an interesting point James raises, and I can see this coming up again and again. It does happen fairly frequently that a member finds an overpriced vehicle claiming to be a Sandman and many of us comment.

I think this probably does provide a useful service to unsuspecting prospective online buyers who have the initiative to check this site, possibly much more than we could ever know, possibly not, but I think the point James makes about personal comments regarding the seller (even though they were pretty mild that I saw) is worth considering. Now that said (and before every one goes ballistic....)

I think its also true that were an online forum discussing a poor trade practice (I'll choose an emotive one... say; deliberately selling over the date ice creams to unsuspecting kids for 4 bucks on school holidays), many Australians would think it was OK to say the seller was a shit. But there's a line there somewhere.

I spose... just saying the ice cream seller is a shit isn't really necessarily useful, saying their ice creams are over the date would be useful. Maybe there could be an official criticism! (lol) There is the lemon emoticon.

[Blocker]

So I've been watching this thread and have made no comment. Thanks to Taily for cleaning up some inappropriate comments.

People post crap on ebay all the time (I took it as an April fools joke and still do)
There is no benefit to anyone getting into opinions on what particular sellers motivations or intentions are
We are here to help people determine Sandman authenticity, this is what we do here