What if tags are stolen?

[wbute]

no official word yet but I spoke to another bloke at shannons who mentioned the notes on the system are suggesting a value drop of 40% if tags are stolen! We may be getting somewhere. Should hear from them Monday

So what does that mean? They pay you out 40% of the value if they are lost/stolen? Does that also then mean that they will only insure that car for 60% of its market value from then on?

[Vombil]

So what does that mean? They pay you out 40% of the value if they are lost/stolen? Does that also then mean that they will only insure that car for 60% of its market value from then on?

not sure yet mate. the fella asked me to wait until monday. should get the wrap then. I'd imagine the 40% as a pay out would seem logical and yes, if they have paid you out and you continue to insure with them then I'd imagine it would be at the 60% of the original value. They would be overexposed otherwise

[Valencia]

Agreed value is agreed value no matter what happens to your vehicle

[Vombil]

well monday has come and gone and so has tuesday. still not word from Shannons. They have sent me a formal quote since but not yet addressed this issue. Seems like they are hoping it will go away

[Vombil]

Might be worth reconsidering if you have insurance with Shannons or are considering joining them...

They will NOT cover any loss in value to your car if the tags are stolen. They will however cover the $20 fee (or whatever shi!#y small fee it is) to have some state made replacements made (if this is even a possibility). What a bloody insult.

They referred me to page 38 of the PDS which reads
"There is no cover under this policy for - financial loss or compensation because your vehicle's value was less after being repaired, or because you cannot use your vehicle"
I'm baffled as to how that can be interpreted to - 'we will not cover any loss in value or compensate you at all if your vehicle's identity is stolen, even if you can prove your car is worth considerably less as a result'.
For starters stolen tags are not repaired, they are replaced at best. So the loss has not even arisen as a result of, or after, a repair; making this paragraph completely irrelevant but that's the best they can offer me as a 'get out' clause without rewriting their PDS.
It must be a fine line between spelling it out for the consumer and thus missing out on revenue or just carefully omitting it from the PDS and taking 2 weeks to give a concrete response... still nothing in writing kids. Very clever. I emailed my concerns but all they could manage was a response saying we are looking into it and will call you with a response.


Please someone share this on other forums. Shannons insurance consumers need to know that they ARE NOT COVERED FOR THIS EVENT.

[Innuendo]

OK, time to add my 2 cents.

While I 100% agree the cars value on certain models is affected by the tags and I certainly would NOT be interested in any of these types of cars that had a missing tag/tags unless I just wanted to modify the hell out of it.
The insurance company doesn't inspect the tags when they insure. So you/others could already have a genuine whatever, and have it agreed valued insured with an insurance company with one or more build tags missing now and the insurance company doesn't even know. You find out others get a pay out for missing/stolen tags and think cool I'll cash in on this also. Lets face it the tags effect only some models not every car. But is it equally true the cars it does effect it is likely to effect hard. Lets say you have a Sandman (one worth serious cash) because it is a highly desirable version. It is the tags that let you know and basically prove it's desirability I.E: Nice/or rare paint colour, trim colour with superior (top of the line) drive line. Lets say this is a windowless Panel Van Tuxedo Black, L31, M21, 1/74 dated HQ that has never had the tags off it ever and has full documentation from build to sales date and from then on. Let's say it's a $80,000 value. Some how the tags all go missing but everything else remains the same. What's it worth now? Half? Probably. Slightly more, slightly less? But it isn't the once super desirable 80K car it once was.

So $40,000 down the shitter and the insurance company says bad luck!
Of course you can replace the car in the scenario with a XU-1, L34, A9X or just about any collectable Monaro, GT etc the result would be the same.

There are some/buyers/collectors/investors who place value on the tags never being removed from a car (could have been rebodied!).
Others who don't care as much.
But just about everybody is going to baulk if the tags are gone/missing.
Modifying the tags isn't a good thing either, as it would effect the value in the eyes of some and illegal in the eyes of others.

Maybe there is an opportunity for certificate of authenticity via a service that has photographs of tags fitted and documented time line of events should things turn sour.
Doesn't change the fact the car has lost value and the amount of prospective buyers would have dropped considerably. But this type of service could help with a future sale.

It is certainly a can of worms. The answer so far from Shannon's isn't going to sit well with insured as it certainly doesn't sit well with me.

[playwme]

I'm a non believer in insurance anyway. It's same as a Casino. You take a gamble, sometimes it pays off but in the long run, the house always wins. I look after my stuff, keep it safe, and try not to damage it. I don't need to prop up the guy who doesn't.
In this case, I pretty much agree with Shannons. This proposal (while does legitimately happen) is so open to rorting it's not funny. In reality, the car should be written off, never to be reregistered, stripped down to parts and the shell crushed. Even then, there's still a set of tags floating around that can be reused, possibly by a mate of the guy who's car lost all its value.
Don't want to take the risk on your "investment"? Go buy Apple stock then. Otherwise, leave your bonnet down at car shows.

I'd be interested if you could find ANY insurance company that would do what you propose. I doubt Shannons is some evil exception. There might be someone who will, but they'll be the odd ones out.

[wbute]

I am a firm believer in insurance. Just make sure you understand the policy.
As far as I can see no insurance company should insure any classic car without all the information and that includes the importance of the tags. If you did make a claim on loss of tags and they did contribute to over half the value of the vehicle then yes they really should write it off. If you didn't like that then don't insure it.
There are only two things that distinguish a Holden Panelvan/Ute from a Holden Sandman, the tags and information from HHS. Even then it's debatable for some vans/Utes. Yet people want top dollar based on this but then don't see why they would be relevant for insurance value? Come off it. Insurance companies need to be made aware of this in my opinion.
It's already been stated in this thread that people wouldn't touch a Sandman missing it's tags. That has automatically drastically reduced its value.
As for the stolen tags still floating around, my point on engraving the chassis number does not de-value them. It increases the value of them as it permanently links them to the car and makes them worthless at the same time to a thief.

[Vombil]

just got a quote from SGIO veterans vintage and classics. It's not often you hear the operator open up on their opinion of a competitor but the woman I dealt with said they are getting 100 calls a day (granted this is likely an exaggeration) from Shannons customers switching. I mentioned I felt there was an attitudinal problem with staff Shannons. She said, don't worry everyone else has said the same thing. Maybe all just sales talk but interesting nonetheless. I'm sure there is some truth among what she said.

SGIO were exactly the same price as Shannons and you automatically get salvage rights on anything older than 1980. Anything newer you get first option to buy the wreck in event of total loss. You don't need to stuff around sending them date stamped photos and they will insure for agreed value - irrespective of what you paid, as it should be! Agreed - not market, or purchase price. Fu5Kin agreed value! Period.
Further to this the policy allows you to drive it any day of the week up to 9,000kms per year! Shannons only want you driving twice a month (granted I asked for extreme limited use) for the same premium!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

i will pop the question on 'what if the ID tags were stolen' tomorrow when I talk to them again