Historic rego

[Innuendo]

Personally I don't like "club registration" because I don't really like to get into club politics.
I also despise the ugly historic number plates. But putting that aside. What if you were to have say a FC Holden 100% stock to look at yet if legally fitted with a 186 Red motor with triple down draft strombergs and extractors that was approved with an engineers report. Would that qualify? If that does, what then of the same car with widened steel wheels and low back bucket seats that have also been approved and are part of the engineers report?

[Taily]

Personally I don't like "club registration" because I don't really like to get into club politics.
I also despise the ugly historic number plates. But putting that aside. What if you were to have say a FC Holden 100% stock to look at yet if legally fitted with a 186 Red motor with triple down draft strombergs and extractors that was approved with an engineers report. Would that qualify? If that does, what then of the same car with widened steel wheels and low back bucket seats that have also been approved and are part of the engineers report?

That (to me) is the best case I've seen put together for a new type of "limited use" registration. To me "Historic" registration should be for what it really was designed for - that is a relatively period correct standard vehicle. My HJ ute when finished will fit straight into "H" rego as it will be a standard vehicle re-furb (standard interior, standard external looking paint - albeit in two pack but will look like an acryllic job, standard N66 wheels/redwalls etc. However the moment I pull the standard 308 out, slip her under the bench for a standard rebuild and the put the cranky injected stroker/2800 rev stally in, then to me the ute loses its historic significance and becomes more aligned with the street machine type of limited usage even though there is no external change to the exterior of the vehicle. Well, apart from the custom exhaust I would have to get made...

What we would have to achieve is to get a unified front and criteria for just what constitutes "Limited Use" and what happens when this usage criteria is exceeded?

[Dr Terry]

Personally I don't like "club registration" because I don't really like to get into club politics.
I also despise the ugly historic number plates. But putting that aside. What if you were to have say a FC Holden 100% stock to look at yet if legally fitted with a 186 Red motor with triple down draft strombergs and extractors that was approved with an engineers report. Would that qualify? If that does, what then of the same car with widened steel wheels and low back bucket seats that have also been approved and are part of the engineers report?

It's not 'club registration' it's historic concessional registration & you don't need to get into club politics, you just talk to the club person concerned, usually the registrar. These guys aren't aliens, mostly they're car guys like you & me. As I said, if the particular club that you've contacted doesn't suit you, find one that does. There is good, bad & mediocre in everything & car clubs are no exceptions.

None of what you describe is eligible for historic rego, which is why a type of modified car limited-use concessional scheme has been mooted. However I think we are a while away from that, given what I mentioned above.

I agree that the number plates are not the best looking around, but they are a compromise. When they were first designed, the Corvette guys & others wanted a smaller plate & a committee (you know how 'committees' are !!) came up with this design.

For $60 per year for rego, instead of $1,000+ (Sydney prices) I don't give a flying how fugly the number plates are. I've got 8 cars on H plates so I'm saving heaps of $$$.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

What we would have to achieve is to get a unified front and criteria for just what constitutes "Limited Use" and what happens when this usage criteria is exceeded?

The ACMC (Australian Confederation of Motoring Clubs) was formed 2 or 3 years ago & this was/is one of its platforms, but like anything you have to start somewhere. Google ACMC & get involved.

As I mentioned above, one of the biggest issues is the inconsistency in engineering certification & as you know this has all been going thru some changes lately. This has to be sorted first before you can initiate any type of modified concessional scheme, otherwise it becomes 'open slather' & we'll have dumped racecars with blowers 3 feet out of the bonnet on the street. Policing or regulating it is the biggest hurdle which why the RTA, hand-balled the historic scheme to the car club movement.

When criteria is exceeded in any rego system you car is deemed to be unregistered ($1200+ fine, ouch).

Dr Terry

[Innuendo]

It "is" club registration if you have to be a member of a club. I have no interest in clubs for reasons I have mentioned. There is always some smartarse who wants an argument just to show their self importance.
Historic or limited use registration should be done by the RMS/RTA. Sure they can sub it to clubs if that's what it take to keep the costs down but you shouldn't ever be forced to become a member of a car club to gain this type of registration. The club could simply charge the inspection fee.

If what I mention should never be eligible for Historic registration then this system has major problems and it would exclude a vast majority of the very same club members who offer the Historic registration scheme.
What about an EJ Holden that was sold new with a 149 red motor?

Why does a car with Historic registration even need to have special "H" plates? What purpose does it serve?

While you feel it a good scheme and it suits you, it certainly doesn't suit me or plenty of others. At this stage I prefer to pay for full registration (begrudgingly) so I don't need to deal with clubs, restrictions and keep well away from the ugly plates.

I know Majestic Vanners are offering this style of registration in many states. I highly doubt these period customised Vans are ever going to fall under the guidelines as you describe.

[Dr Terry]

It "is" club registration if you have to be a member of a club. I have no interest in clubs for reasons I have mentioned. There is always some smartarse who wants an argument just to show their self importance.
Historic or limited use registration should be done by the RMS/RTA. Sure they can sub it to clubs if that's what it take to keep the costs down but you shouldn't ever be forced to become a member of a car club to gain this type of registration. The club could simply charge the inspection fee.

If what I mention should never be eligible for Historic registration then this system has major problems and it would exclude a vast majority of the very same club members who offer the Historic registration scheme.
What about an EJ Holden that was sold new with a 149 red motor?

Why does a car with Historic registration even need to have special "H" plates? What purpose does it serve?

While you feel it a good scheme and it suits you, it certainly doesn't suit me or plenty of others. At this stage I prefer to pay for full registration (begrudgingly) so I don't need to deal with clubs, restrictions and keep well away from the ugly plates.

I know Majestic Vanners are offering this style of registration in many states. I highly doubt these period customised Vans are ever going to fall under the guidelines as you describe.

Too many questions in one post. But I will try.

You've obviously had bad experiences with clubs & I can't answer for that.

If you want the system run by the RTA/RMS you will pay & pay heavily, look at the cost of a simple number plate transfer.

The reason the clubs run it, is because they are the only ones to get of their backsides & originally got the system going. It was begun over 65 years ago apparently.

I can't understand why you can't see why modified cars don't fit into the current historic rules. As I said if you don't like the rules get together & do something about them. Oh, I forgot you don't politics or groups.

Historic concessional cars have always had unique plates, my guess is that they stand out for the coppers, but I really don't know.

Australia is/was a free country, if you don't like the scheme or the look of the plates, that fine, don't use them. For me it's about the $$$ & ease of use.

The mythical 149 EJ is just that, a myth. Do you have any concrete proof that any ever came off the production line ? Pre-production prototypes are very different & would be very easy to verify, & if one did exist, I would be proud to have the owner of one as a member of our club. I'm currently writing an article on just this topic. I might put a draft up on this site in the near future. A bit like the Canadian engine block, these myths have grown over time. Do we have a separate section for Holden myths, or do I just post it here.

Dr Terry

[Innuendo]

The mythical 149 EJ is just that, a myth. Do you have any concrete proof that any ever came off the production line ?

Nope, I believe it was dealer done to clear remaining stock.

[Dr Terry]

Nope, I believe it was dealer done to clear remaining stock.

Well that makes it a modified car. A bit like a dealer-fitted V8 in an LJ Torana, Most of the conversion is bolt in, but what about the gearbox rear crossmember, if you're using the EH gearbox. That would need engineering approval. There are guys over on oldholden (I know, I know), who believe that they are a real production thing. Dr Terry

[Dick61]

Well that makes it a modified car. A bit like a dealer-fitted V8 in an LJ Torana, Most of the conversion is bolt in, but what about the gearbox rear crossmember, if you're using the EH gearbox. That would need engineering approval. There are guys over on oldholden (I know, I know), who believe that they are a real production thing. Dr Terry

There are a lot of myths perpetuated by bogans about Holdens or for any make of car for that matter. Sometimes the cause can be as innocent as a typo or error that is not picked up by the proof reader of a book on the subject. One such point in case, is the error on page 33 of your own book Dr Terry. I have had EH's and EJ's, and all of the EJ's had red engines in them. Today you would need an engineers certificate to register them but in the 70's and 80's an early Holden with a red in it was very common. Twin carbs on an early Holden grey engine were quite common in the 60's and there were a lot of companies that produced manifolds. I would like to have an FB ute like my Grandfather's and have it decked out with twin carbs, alloy rocker cover, and floor shift, all of these would be Lanspeed products which were produced by my Father in the early 60's. You would very hard pressed to convince me that these are "modifications" and not "accessories". Twin carbs and extractors on a grey produce more of a visual and aural effect than a performance one.

[Dr Terry]

There are a lot of myths perpetuated by bogans about Holdens or for any make of car for that matter. Sometimes the cause can be as innocent as a typo or error that is not picked up by the proof reader of a book on the subject. One such point in case, is the error on page 33 of your own book Dr Terry. I have had EH's and EJ's, and all of the EJ's had red engines in them. Today you would need an engineers certificate to register them but in the 70's and 80's an early Holden with a red in it was very common. Twin carbs on an early Holden grey engine were quite common in the 60's and there were a lot of companies that produced manifolds. I would like to have an FB ute like my Grandfather's and have it decked out with twin carbs, alloy rocker cover, and floor shift, all of these would be Lanspeed products which were produced by my Father in the early 60's. You would very hard pressed to convince me that these are "modifications" and not "accessories". Twin carbs and extractors on a grey produce more of a visual and aural effect than a performance one.

Yes, as I said when does an accessory become a modification ? That debate could go on forever.

Multiple carburettors are a bit like the wide alloys & dumped suspension I referred to in an earlier post. They were very common in the day & were also technically illegal in the day. I have been the proud recipient of more than one canary in my time.

There are rules on carbies & there are rules on wheels & suspension. Most of these rules have been around essentially unchanged, since the late 60s (some probably earlier). If something is illegal today, it was most likely illegal back then too. Just because something was commonplace doesn't make legal.

BTW, I have a list of typos & errors in my book, but nothing on page 33. You are talking about the 60 Years of Holden book, aren't you ? On that subject I am always interested to hear of errors or omissions in my book. If you know of any more please pass them on.

Dr Terry.