Is there a likely solution?

[HK1837]

I know it is religion, pride, economics and fanatasicm involved amongst other stuff. What I really don't get (and i'll probably never get) is the Jewish faith, and the Muslim faith both stem from the same person - Abraham. The Jewish faith tracks back to his "legitimate" (I use the term only in sense of marriage) son whereas the Muslim faith goes back to his "illegitimate" son (as in not the son of his wife as far as I understand). Whilst there must be reasons for the infighting I really don't get what it is all about in the end and I suppose i'm not meant to.

I guess it is no different to the Catholic faith versus the Church of England faith. They were the same thing, but Henry the VIII wanted a divorce and the church wouldn't grant it so he started his own religion. The ensuing wars fought and the people slain and the awful stuff that occurred around the same time (Inquisitions) especially during Elizabeth's reign are dreadful when you read it (both on behalf of the Spanish and the English).

I guess we also have to remember the Islam faith as we know it are a young-ish faith compared to the Catholic church, just look at what the Catholic church were doing to "heretics", "pagans" and "wayward christians" when their faith was roughly the same age (just a bit younger) as Islam is today. The 1100-1300 period of crusades was a bloodbath, probably not that dissimilar to what would happen if the sects of Islam all united today and started taking on the rest of the world.

[Flamenco_not_Flamingo]

I know it is religion, pride, economics and fanatasicm involved amongst other stuff. What I really don't get (and i'll probably never get) is the Jewish faith, and the Muslim faith both stem from the same person - Abraham. The Jewish faith tracks back to his "legitimate" (I use the term only in sense of marriage) son whereas the Muslim faith goes back to his "illegitimate" son (as in not the son of his wife as far as I understand). Whilst there must be reasons for the infighting I really don't get what it is all about in the end and I suppose i'm not meant to.

I guess it is no different to the Catholic faith versus the Church of England faith. They were the same thing, but Henry the VIII wanted a divorce and the church wouldn't grant it so he started his own religion. The ensuing wars fought and the people slain and the awful stuff that occurred around the same time (Inquisitions) especially during Elizabeth's reign are dreadful when you read it (both on behalf of the Spanish and the English).

I guess we also have to remember the Islam faith as we know it are a young-ish faith compared to the Catholic church, just look at what the Catholic church were doing to "heretics", "pagans" and "wayward christians" when their faith was roughly the same age (just a bit younger) as Islam is today. The 1100-1300 period of crusades was a bloodbath, probably not that dissimilar to what would happen if the sects of Islam all united today and started taking on the rest of the world.

Islam 610 AD, Catholic official religion of the Roman empire 380 AD, a mere 230 years difference, Christianity is obviously 580 year difference.

"I guess we also have to remember the Islam faith as we know it are a young-ish faith compared to the Catholic church, just look at what the Catholic church were doing to "heretics", "pagans" and "wayward christians" when their faith was roughly the same age (just a bit younger) as Islam is today.".... I think your referring to the Spanish Inquisition 1478 AD, but if you were to talk about the same age as the catholic church is now so that would make it the 1800's, Islam was actually in decline with no terror program equal to the catholic church and, if we want to go back another 400 years to equal the same age as Christianity it was the beginning of the decline.

Some historians see the Crusades as part of a purely defensive war against the expansion of Islam, went for 200 years to make Jerusalem a purely Christian city state, once again making Judeo - Christianity religions the aggressor.

I wonder what the prophets of both sides would make of our Sandmans?

[HK1837]

Islam 610 AD, Catholic official religion of the Roman empire 380 AD, a mere 230 years difference, Christianity is obviously 580 year difference.

"I guess we also have to remember the Islam faith as we know it are a young-ish faith compared to the Catholic church, just look at what the Catholic church were doing to "heretics", "pagans" and "wayward christians" when their faith was roughly the same age (just a bit younger) as Islam is today.".... I think your referring to the Spanish Inquisition 1478 AD, but if you were to talk about the same age as the catholic church is now so that would make it the 1800's, Islam was actually in decline with no terror program equal to the catholic church and, if we want to go back another 400 years to equal the same age as Christianity it was the beginning of the decline.

Some historians see the Crusades as part of a purely defensive war against the expansion of Islam, went for 200 years to make Jerusalem a purely Christian city state, once again making Judeo - Christianity religions the aggressor.

I wonder what the prophets of both sides would make of our Sandmans?

My facts are close enough, Catholic Church 2000 years old give or take. Islam 1300 give or take. The Crusades of the 1100-1300 era were supposedly about cleansing the Holy land of non-Catholics. Which as far as I can tell is exactly what the current Islamic people there want of the current Jewish people. History repeating itself!

The Inquisition was still happening in the 1500's where Jewish people and Protestants were hunted in Spanish territories. And Jesuit priests were hunted in England

[Aurora_Australis]

I guess it is no different to the Catholic faith versus the Church of England faith. They were the same thing, but Henry the VIII wanted a divorce and the church wouldn't grant it so he started his own religion. The ensuing wars fought and the people slain and the awful stuff that occurred around the same time (Inquisitions) especially during Elizabeth's reign are dreadful when you read it (both on behalf of the Spanish and the English).

Very much simplified: but it was still happening not that long ago with "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland. Catholics vs Protestants.

A lot of the wars fought on the basis of religion have two very fundamental motives at the core. Land and Money (tithes.) As long as the human race in general covets what is not theirs, these wars will still go on. Can we fix it? Probably not. Envy, greed and hatred are extremely motivational emotions.

Where does the answer lie? I wish I knew. I could say something about rational grown men and women fighting over some imaginary friends in the sky, but as history has shown us time and time again, there is nothing rational about religion. L Ron Hubbard anyone?

[Dr Terry]

I know it is religion, pride, economics and fanatasicm involved amongst other stuff. What I really don't get (and i'll probably never get) is the Jewish faith, and the Muslim faith both stem from the same person - Abraham. The Jewish faith tracks back to his "legitimate" (I use the term only in sense of marriage) son whereas the Muslim faith goes back to his "illegitimate" son (as in not the son of his wife as far as I understand). Whilst there must be reasons for the infighting I really don't get what it is all about in the end and I suppose i'm not meant to.

I guess it is no different to the Catholic faith versus the Church of England faith. They were the same thing, but Henry the VIII wanted a divorce and the church wouldn't grant it so he started his own religion. The ensuing wars fought and the people slain and the awful stuff that occurred around the same time (Inquisitions) especially during Elizabeth's reign are dreadful when you read it (both on behalf of the Spanish and the English).

I guess we also have to remember the Islam faith as we know it are a young-ish faith compared to the Catholic church, just look at what the Catholic church were doing to "heretics", "pagans" and "wayward christians" when their faith was roughly the same age (just a bit younger) as Islam is today. The 1100-1300 period of crusades was a bloodbath, probably not that dissimilar to what would happen if the sects of Islam all united today and started taking on the rest of the world.

The whole Catholic / Christian history is a bit of a can of worms also.

Around 1050 A.D. the 'original' Christian Church split into what is now the Catholic Church & the Orthodox Churches & they both claim to be the original Christian Church.

It seems that humans have been at war over an imaginary deity for 1,000s of years.

Dr Terry

[HK1837]

The whole Catholic / Christian history is a bit of a can of worms also.

Around 1050 A.D. the 'original' Christian Church split into what is now the Catholic Church & the Orthodox Churches & they both claim to be the original Christian Church.

It seems that humans have been at war over an imaginary deity for 1,000s of years.

Dr Terry

Too true, even if the deities are imaginary or not! I know the Abrahamic/Semitic religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) all essentially pray to the same singular god, they just all fight (or argue) over what to many of us seem to be trivial points but to them they are mountains. What I always see as a bit odd is for example the current King James Bible which was commissioned by James I is in English we today can read and essentially understand. People argue and devote their lives to the words as if they are the actual words of Jesus or his disciples. But the book has been translated at least from Latin (Romans) and probably Aramaic and/or Greek prior to that. And copies were made by monks under candlelight by hand. So possibly lots has been lost in translation. So should the current word be for example Celebrate not Celibate? To display it, I saw words on the wall on the chapel in Chenonceau Chateau in France. They were obviously in English of some sort, but I could only read one word which from memory was God. It was graffiti by Scottish guards from the 1500's. So if we can't read English with 100% clarity from the 1500's what hope do we have with ancient languages being translated perfectly!

[Taily]

Too true, even if the deities are imaginary or not! I know the Abrahamic/Semitic religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) all essentially pray to the same singular god, they just all fight (or argue) over what to many of us seem to be trivial points but to them they are mountains. What I always see as a bit odd is for example the current King James Bible which was commissioned by James I is in English we today can read and essentially understand. People argue and devote their lives to the words as if they are the actual words of Jesus or his disciples. But the book has been translated at least from Latin (Romans) and probably Aramaic and/or Greek prior to that. And copies were made by monks under candlelight by hand. So possibly lots has been lost in translation. So should the current word be for example Celebrate not Celibate? To display it, I saw words on the wall on the chapel in Chenonceau Chateau in France. They were obviously in English of some sort, but I could only read one word which from memory was God. It was graffiti by Scottish guards from the 1500's. So if we can't read English with 100% clarity from the 1500's what hope do we have with ancient languages being translated perfectly!

In agreeance*, not only have many words in the language changed but it is now clear that the actual meaning of many words have "evolved" as such. I daresay that both written and spoken English is not the only language to continually change over the past couple of millenia and as such would likely be a factor in the confusion of, melding and evolution of religious beliefs globally.

By example only (and I only use this one because I know of it through a work acquaintance, ask an SDA what the words "to see" mean. There will be at least three to four meanings, dependant upon context and use.

I must admit to being old enough to have (suffered through) Latin Mass at school...

As per my previous post I still believe that the whole mess has been going on over in the Middle East for so long now there is no right or wrong side anymore as the waters of history have become too muddied to make any sense from. I do dispair of the innocent people caught in the crossfire of religious fanaticism, much like the supposed "All Accepting" faith that I was brought up under/to be a part of all the while having a very dark past of its own version of genocide (Inquisition).

I don't have the faintest clue what is going to work over there but hold the hope that something does, before too many people lose their lives to what ultimately is arrogance.

* A word that in itself has a meaning in this day and age quite polar to its previous meaning some 7-900 years ago (think: grievance) and draws from early French/Scottish.